[lojban-beginners] le vs lo, round 983749587345 (was Re: Problems with using vowel ending sequences as cmavo?)

["Brett Williams" <mungojelly@gmail.com>]

On 10/10/08, H. Felton <fagricipni@gmail.com> wrote:

.i  pei do cuxna le nu do cmene lo'u stela se ckiku

.i mi se cmene lo'u se ckiku le'u ki'u le nu le speni be mi cu se cmene zo ckiku
I'm named "se ckiku" (thing opened by a key) because my spouse is named "ckiku" (key).

.i la ckiku cu se cmene zo ckiku ki'u le nu la ckiku bau le glico cu se cmene zoi gy I X Key gy
Ckiku is named "ckiku" because in English he's named "I X Key".

.i la xorxes pu te cmene zo stela mi ki'u le za'i zo stela lo'u se ckiku le'u cu simsa lo ka smuni kei kei

Xorxes called me "stela" (lock) because "stela" and "se ckiku" are similar in their meaning,

.e le za'i zo stela le glico cmene ji'a cu simsa
and because "stela" is similar to the English name, also.

.i zoi gy Stella gy cu fetsi cmene .i je mi nanmu
"Stella" is a feminine name, and I'm a man.
 
.i ku'i na vajni mi .i ji'a mi pu dasni lo skaci
But that's not important to me.  I've worn skirts, too!

On can also see in my Lojban message above that I am still having
trouble with the new gadri.

I don't think they're as confusing as their confusing history makes them seem. 
 
Basically I think the way to keep from getting confused is to realize that there are a lot of situations where you can use either "lo" or "le".  So it's not a matter of only one or the other being right for each situation.  Instead there are certain situations where you would NOT use each one: 
 
You wouldn't use "le" in a situation where you didn't have any particular referent in mind.  For instance if you wanted to eat an apple, but you didn't have any particular apple already, you would say "mi djica lo nu mi citka LO plise", because if you said "le plise" it would imply falsely that you had a particular referent in mind that you were calling "plise". 
 
You wouldn't use "lo" in a situation where the referent is not literally and exactly the sort of thing that goes in the brivla place you're using as a description.  If you were talking about a plastic apple, you could call it "le plise" or you could call it "lo slasi" (a plastic thing), but you wouldn't say "lo plise" because that would imply falsely that the thing you are referring to is actually an apple. 
 
There are a lot of situations where you are talking about a particular thing that you have in mind, AND you are using a description which is literally true to describe it.  In those cases either "le" or "lo" is valid!  They may have very slightly different implications in context, with "le" emphasizing more the fact that you do have something in mind, and "lo" emphasizing more the fact that it is as it's described, but you're free to choose either one. 
  
 mu'o mi'e se ckiku