[lojban-beginners] Re: weirder modal connections

["Jorge Llambías" <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 5:34 AM, Oleksii Melnyk <lamelnyk@gmail.com> wrote:
> coi certu
> su ta'o zo'o pe'i zo coi na drani le ka te rinsa kei le nu zo'e gubni benji vo'a
> i mi facki fi le zmadu drani rinsa
> be'enai certu

.i mi na jimpe lo du'u ma kau sa'e nabmi do tu'a zo coi .i zo ju'i .a
zo pe'u cu simlu lo ka ce'u ji'a drani .i ma krinu lo nu pilno lu be'e
nai li'u .e nai lu be'e li'u

> ta'onai
>
> Is there The Way to make a modal bridi connection with the first bridi
> on non-x2 place of unconverted modal?

I don't recall any rule that says the first bridi corresponds to the
x2 place of the unconverted "modal". The bridi that comes after the
tag goes in the x1 place, but the place for the other bridi is
unspecified. (In many/most cases it will be the x2, but that's just
because the underlying predicate usually only has two relevant
places.)

> CLL describes the way to swap x1
> with something, but how can we swap out x2.
>
> For example to say:
>  zo'e basna le nu "feature" kei lenu "action" kei
> in a bit more friendly way, like
>  "action taken place" .i "emphasizing feature"

"emphasizED feature", right?

> we need to get basna's x3 into x2 place and x2 into x1

I think getting x2 into x1 is enough.

> So far i've found 2 possibilities:
>
> 1. converting selbri twice (... fi'o se te basna ...) -- which, imho,
> would make the text uncomprehensible for human
>
> 2. "masking" all but 2 needed places (fi'o se basna be zi'o) -- not
> sure, how it works for more distant places, "lot" of "bei zi'o"s would
> not make things prettier.
>
> So, have i missed "true" way, and which one is better?

Those will work, but are overkill, because {fi'o se basna} by itself
should be enough.

"basna" can only take two events (assuming x2 of basna is an event),
so there can't be any doubt about what the role of the first bridi is,
but there might be a problem in the rare cases of predicates with more
than two event arguments. For example "X .i fi'o se denpa bo Y". Is X
the te denpa or the ve denpa?

mu'o mi'e xorxes