[lojban-beginners] Re: Absolute and relative quantifiers

[Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com>]

de'i li 05 pi'e 09 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Squark Rabinovich .fy. cusku zoi
skamyxatra.
> According the *xamoi ckupau* of the "reference grammar", the usual outer
> quantifier of a mass/set is something beginning with *pi* e.g. *piro *,*pisu'o
> *,* pici* . That is, we specify which portion of the whole the mass/set
> comprises. However, what if I want to specify the exact number? For instance
> 
> *pinonononononononopa loi remna cu bevri le pipno*
> 
> means that the piano was carried by a mass of humans, numbered earth
> population x 1E-9, that is, about 7 people.
.skamyxatra

This was greatly changed several years ago by xorlo, which I linked to a
description of in my response to one of your other questions.  Your first
example does mean that one billionth of a mass of humans carried the piano, but
post-xorlo the size of the entire mass is unspecified by default, rather than
referring to all humans in existence.  Depending on context, the sentence could
be interpreted as referring to one billionth of the human population of Earth,
one billionth of a single person, or one billionth of the innumerable humanoids
spread throughout this universe and others.  In the lack of explicit
quantification, it all depends on context.

> However, what is I want to specify the exact number of people comprising the
> mass? Is it legitimate to say
> 
> *ze loi remna cu bevri le pipno*

That means "Seven masses/groups of humans move the piano."  To specify the
number of individuals in a mass, use an inner quantifier, i.e., "{loi ze remna
cu bevri le pipno}."

> On the other hand, what if I want to use a relative quantifier with
> individuals? For instance, can I say
> 
> *pici le nanmu ca tavla*
> *
> *
> In the sense that "a third of the men are/were/will be talking" (not
> necessarily to each other or together in some other way)?

That doesn't work the way you want it to.  It means "One third of a single man
(out of a group of men of unspecified size) talks."  To get (roughly) your
desired meaning, use "{loi}" or "{lei}" -- "{pici lei nanmu ca tavla}."  While
this does imply that the men are talking "together" in some way (i.e., if you
were to view the men as a group, you could say that the group is talking), it
does not necessarily mean that they talk to each other, with each other, or
otherwise interacting with each other.

mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.

-- 
lo panojauvaipa moi krinu be lonu cilre fi la lojban. zo'u
noda ca'o se bangu la gliban.