Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: 'tesete' and cmavo cluster rules

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Álvaro Vallejo <avallejor@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for your opinion, but it is either very surprising to me or wrong.

Wrong.

Yes, it is .u bu, sure. My fault.

Probably I lack reading comprehension, but here are my arguments:
1. (CLL, Chapter 3): "Lojban is designed so that any properly spoken Lojban utterance can be uniquely transcribed in writing, and any properly written Lojban can be spoken so as to be uniquely reproduced by another person. As a consequence, the standard Lojban orthography must assign to each distinct sound, or phoneme, a unique letter or symbol."

My reading of this is that there is only one way to pronounce u, which is (among others) the plain Spanish "u".

Well, yes and no. Lojban has diphthongs, which as I said earlier, are a unique pronunciation represented by two adjacent vowels. So, .ubu is always pronounced as in the word "flute" if it's not part of a diphthong.

The complete list of Lojban diphthongs and there pronunciations is:

*their

"ai" - as in "aye"
"au" - as in "wow"
"ei" - as in "tray"
"oi" - as in "toy"

"ia" - as in "Maya"
"ie" - as in "yes"
"ii" - as in "yeesh"
"io" - as in "yo"
"iu" - as in "you"

"ua" - as in "what"
"ue" - as in "wet"
"ui" - as in "we"
"uo" - as in "whoa"
"uu" - as in "woo"

2. It may be that speakers of other languages can pronounce it as "w" (and I can forgive them), but I can/do clearly pronounce it as plain "u": .ui = "u" + "i"

"ui", "u'i", and "u,i" (, the latter of which only appears in cmene, ) are all pronounced differently. "ui" is "we", "u'i" is "oohee", and "u,i" is "oo ee". "u,i" is the one that should be pronounced "u" + "i", as you put it, not "ui".
Anyway, this is just my humble opinion.

mu'o mi'e la .albaros

On Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:04:23 AM UTC-5, Miles Forster wrote:
.y bu is not "u". .u bu is. And the u in ui is not pronounced [u] but [w] which *is* a consonant. Some here seem to lack reading comprehension. It's annoying to argue with people who won't listen to what the other person is saying.
Whether or not something is a vowel depends on the way it's pronounced, not the way it's written.

mu'o

Am 10.05.2012 02:12, schrieb Michael Turniansky:

It is, and it always does require a pause in front of it. Miles is wrong.
--gejyspa

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Álvaro Vallejo <> wrote:

.uesai

- "The initial period can never be omitted before vowels (if they are phonetically vowels. {ui} = [wi], so no dot is necessary). "

- "ui does not begin in a vowel. Therefore, no denpa bu is needed."

Well... I am really shocked! How is it that "u" is not a vowel? It IS a vowel or I should start learning again Lojban from zero: it's name is indeed ybu, isn't it?
(Chapter 1 of Lojban for beginners, Chapter 2 of CLL)...

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.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )