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[lojban-beginners] Re: .e'o ko pe'u

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/mkGI-v2y2zo/discussion

On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:30:22 AM UTC+4, .iuROK. wrote:
coi

{ko} is used in Lojban where imperative mood would be used in other languages. The imperative mood is used to communicate:
* commands;
* requests;
* permissions;
* prohibitions;
* advices;
* maybe other things too.
Of those uses, I think, commands and prohibitions assume listener's obligation to comply; others do not.

In Lojban, using {ko} (or experimental {ko'oi}) is THE method of constructing "imperatives". For me, bare {ko broda} does not carry a connotation of listener's obligation or subordination; it can be a request, a permission, an advice, etc. A "connotation" MAY be conveyed by additional words:
.i .ei dai ko klama
.i ko sidju mi pe'u
.i .e'a ko zutse
.i .e'u ko sisku
But default connotation should be unspecified.

However, publications do not adree with my point of view.
Lojban For Beginners suggests that bare {ko broda} is not polite in a typical situation: http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less3soften.html
CLL calls {ko}-sentences "commands": http://dag.github.io/cll/7/2/

So, what is your point of view?

There are also words {.e'o} and {pe'u}. They are normally used in conjunction with {ko}. But what if they are used without {ko}? Is the resulting bridi a proposition or not?

http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Irrealis+Attitudinals
In this proposal {.e'o do dunda le silna mi} is translated as "Can you pass me the salt, please?", which suggests that {.e'o broda} is a request, NOT a proposition. (Also, that example uses {dunda} in a sense of "pass", "hand"; not "give a gift" as defined in the gusmu list.)

I would prefer having only {ko} as the "magic word" that turns a bridi into a request. Then I would interpret {.e'o broda} as a "weak" proposition with a "connotation" of request. For example, consider a sign {le vi tanxe ku kunti .e'o}.
Denotation: "this box should be empty".
Connotation: "don't put stuff here".
The same to {pe'u}.

And what is your opinion on {.e'o broda}?

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