Re: [lojban-beginners] APE: Equivalent?

.u'inai.o'o.i'enaicu'i.ienaicu'i.o'u.oisairo'e

Your whole missive is completely not in the spirit of the APE.

I mean, you did a whole huge Logician's analysis on the birdi apparently before even /bothering/ with the rest of the message.

Then instead of answering the questions by giving /_*examples*_/ like was asked, you give another analysis, and what I would call a Philosopher's Response to the third question.. Which, by the way, basically kills the likelihood of the /audience/ /participating/, which, seeing as it's in the acronym, is, you know, kind of the point. (Another point being that it's for Beginner's. The reason it's on the Beginner's list.)

And then you say you the format of this APE, which by the way is the same the original set, is better, because chatters use IRC. APEs are not and never were about "chatting". Obviously a chat room (IRC) is for chatting, while a forum thread (Lojban, Lojban for Beginner's , etc.) is for long-term discussion. I was asking about the category. The originals were things like "Write a Lojban haiku, Write some Lojban proverbs, Write a Lojban greeting that doesn't involve coi/co'o, i.e. translations of things like "Good Morning!".

P.S. I don't care if the terms I used to describe sections of your missive are accurate, and I know they aren't technical. That's what (most) everything you write looks like to me, and my opinion is my opinion. Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I don't, but that's neither here nor there right now, and if you would like to debate with me my response, I am willing in a new topic on main.

On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

{ko'a jungau ko'e lo na'e jetnu
One person makes something known to another. What they make known is not true.

.i ru na'e jungau ra lo jetnu
One person does something having to do with the truth and the other person, which is not {jungau} but in some sense on the same scale as {jungau}. This is sufficiently vague that it is difficult to interpret, in my opinion. The version with {na} is easier to interpret, as it is simply that ko'a doesn't make ko'e know the truth, but might or might not make them know anything.

.i ru bacru noda}
Technically, this could make someone know something, depending on the situation. For example, when someone asks a leading question and you don't answer, typically they infer that the "bad" answer is the truth.

"He tells them something other than the truth. He does something other than tell them the truth. He says nothing."

1: What circumstances can be described by /only one/ of the first two bridi? (I'd like examples both ways, please.)
2: What circumstances can be described by /both/ of the first two bridi?
3: I think the last bridi is an example answer for 2. Why am I right or wrong?
A huge array of things can technically be implied by the second bridi with {na'e} present, but because it's so vague, it is difficult to actually point to a clean example where that's how you would want to describe the situation. With {na} present instead, generally (I'm hesitant to say "always") the first bridi is strictly stronger than the second. The strict example where you have the second and not the first is when {ko'a jungau ko'e no da}.

I would say the last bridi may or may not involve 2 and even if it involves 2 it may or may not involve 1. That is, not saying anything may or may not lead to someone being able to infer information, and if it does, the information may or may not be true.

Also, if you like this kind of APE, let me know, I'll think of others. I imagine this will be easier than trying to think of new ways to get you to jbociska, like the earlier set was. ;)

I think this is a better format, since I think people that just want to chat will mostly do it in IRC anyway.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )