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Re: [lojban-beginners] ma xe fanva zoigy.Dial 911.gy.



Using {klagau} (or as I would prefer it {klacpe}) is not quite as vague as the English "Call 911!", which could be intended to result in something other than them coming. I'll discuss this a bit later.

As for dialing numbers in general, yes, it has to do with pressing some buttons in some order, but that's very low-level a way to think about it. I suspect most people operate on a level higher than "pressing buttons in an order" when calling someone. When I call someone, I'm thinking of a number (actually a group of numbers, but how people group them differs between cultures and even intraculturally) that I identify with the callee. That being said, and disregarding this number grouping problem, we can just use {la'e li} to get to the person or institution associated with the number. After all, that is the very purpose of la'e.

Using {li} can lead to some abuse, as we must evaluate the _expression_ thereafter. Therefore, someone could write {.i ko klacpe la'e li sonono su'i papa} equivalently to {.i ko klacpe la'e li sopapa}. Furthermore, using {li} lends itself to problems when we're talking about dialing special numbers such as "*69" or other numbers involving special characters. Therefore, this suggests that {me'o} is indeed more appropriate, since it is the commonly used way to refer to a character string as such, rather than as the interpretation thereof. (The latter case being handled by {li} as shown above.) Therefore one should write {.i ko klacpe la'e me'o sopapa}.

Still, there's the issue of {klacpe} not being adequately vague to translate the English. Of course, we might just not care about vagueness here, and I for one would most often be content with just saying {.i ko klacpe la'e me'o sopapa} when emergencies occur. However, the focus of the English is not so much on the summoning of the police or emergency services, but rather on contacting them, the result of which is left to context or is unimportant. For this, I have no objections to {jorne}. Although it does seem metaphorical at first, we can see that the physical case is really just a special case of the so-called metaphorical one. As such, the reading I have of the definition of {jorne} is "jorne = x1 is in contact with/connected to x2 by x3." Gismu should be broad, and it would thus feel unlojbanic to me for us to arbitrarily restrict jorne to physical cases only, especially in the face of having no other adequate way of expressing the nonphysical cases.

All in all, I would write {.i ko jorne la'e me'o sopapa}.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o




On 10 September 2014 16:05, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
{ri} can be argued to grab {di'u} there, since it begins after {la'e di'u}, is closed, and cannot be repeated to retrieve the same referent.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
What do you think ri refers to in my statement? Because the intended referent was {la'edi'u}.


On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
.ienai


On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
zo ra enai zo ri

2014-09-10 18:08 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
ko jorne la'e li 911

.i na nelci lonu do pilno zo jorne la'edi'u .iku'i radji'i.ei lodu'u ri mapti
 
i zo aktygau cu su'oroi mapti

2014-09-10 17:51 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
jorne

???
 
2014-09-10 17:36 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:
The missing concept includes opening a file, accessing a webpage, opening a
cupboard, opening a book, or accessing a memory location. Opening a cupboard
is "kargau", but that's what you do to the door; I'm talking about what you do
to the cupboard. Any suggestions?
 
I can't think of anything better than that, honestly. Is there any language which uses a word that means something other than "open"? Can you express the concept you're talking about in any language that you know, in a dictionary definition way, as opposed to the list of examples you gave?

Going way off the deep end, the act of opening a, say, cardboard box is basically transforming a hollow, convex cube into a concave... hexahedron?... for the purposes of gaining access to what was the interior, but that seems to me just a very esoteric and wordy way to convey the exact same thing "opening a box".

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )



--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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