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Re: [lojban-beginners] Differenes between “ka” and “nu”



I think la selpa'i has perfectly responded to the question, but I have an objection about the English interpretation of {ka}, and a complement to the explanation about relation of {ka} and other abstractors.

Le lundi 13 juillet 2015 21:45:58 UTC, selpa'i a écrit :

One reason why {lo ka} even crops up in these places is that people try
to avoid having to repeating sumti, the {ka} is supposed to auto-insert
the sumti for them, but this causes problems when using {ka} in places
where you don't want the {ce'u} to be "filled", where you don't want the
{ka}-property to be applied to any outside sumti. {nelci} is such an
example. {mi nelci lo ka limna} could mean "I like the property of
swimming", "I like swimmingness", without any indication or claim that
the speaker is swimming.


{mi nelci lo ka limna} means rather "I like property of swimmer", not "swimming". {ka} (property) signifies a special case of {si'o} (idea, concept) in Lojban.

Both {lo si'o broda} and {lo ka broda} signify « signified » (meaning) of predicate {broda}. The difference is that a sentence in {ka}-clause has only one sumti place blank (denoted with {ce'u}), while a sentence in {si'o}-clause has all places blank. {si'o}-{ka}-{du'u} forms full set of predicate abstraction.

lo si'o (ce'u) limna (ce'u) : 
idea, concept of swimming ; idea, concept that is signified by a predicate "X swims in fluid Y."

lo ka (ce'u) limna (zo'e) : 
property of swimmer ; property that is signified by a predicate "X swims in some fluid," "X has property of swimmer in some fluid."

lo ka (zo'e) limna ce'u : 
property of swimming fluid ; property that is signified by a predicate "someone swims in fluid Y," "Y has property of fluid in which someone swims."

lo du'u (zo'e) limna (zo'e) : 
« signified » of a predicate "someone swims in some fluid."

lo se du'u (zo'e) limna (zo'e) : 
« signifying » (string of symbols) of a predicate "someone swims in some fluid."

mu'o

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