Re: [lojban-beginners] newbie question on bridi construction

[Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>]

On Thursday 14 October 2010 23:17:17 la deivyd. wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm just starting to learn lojban -- starting with smart.fm gismu
> flash cards and reading through the (online html version of) CLL.  I
> came to something in CLL that makes me think I'm fundamentally
> misunderstanding how the grammar works, so I thought I'd de-lurk and
> ask.  (Is there a gismu for "x1 lurks on list x2"?  Just kidding.)

I suggest "mipyju'i": m2=j1 is hidden from and pays attention to m3=j2.

> Example 6.1 (http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/
> chapter7.html#e6d1):
>
>   la .alis. sipna le ri kumfa
>
> says the translation is "Alice sleeps in her room."
>
> If I understand how the bridi work, I should first look at sipna
> (because kumfa has been made into a sumti by adding { le ri } in front
> of it, right?) as a "function":  sipna(x1), where x1 is
> { la .alis. }.  But the sentence, and the translation, seem to imply
> that this is sipna(x1,x2), with x2 being { le ri kumfa }.  When I look
> up sipna in my gismu references, it only seems to have an x1.  Is this
> example a mistake?  Or are my gismu lists outdated and there is an x2
> for sipna?  Or can you add sumti beyond the specified number of
> arguments to a gismu?

There is no x2 of sipna, but it is syntactically correct to put anything in 
any place of any selbri, whether or not it has such a place. The meaning of 
putting something in an undefined terbri, however, is undefined. x2 of sipna 
could be anything having to do with sleeping; it's undefined. The proper 
translation is "la .alis. sipna ne'i le ri kumfa".

In Alice in Wonderland, there is this sentence (I think I wrote it, but I'd 
have to check the CVS log to be sure):
Why, I haven't had a wink of sleep these three weeks!
ze'e le jeftu be li ci mi sipna noda
(ISTR a "ku" or something after "ci")
Here "noda" is in the undefined x2 of "sipna" as if it were the wink place. If 
the usage in the Book is normative, it means "For the infinitely long three 
weeks, I haven't slept anywhere!".

There is a revision of the CLL in progress at http://dag.github.com/cll/.

Pierre
-- 
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.

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