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Re: [lojban-beginners] didactic bridi
Thank you, well said.
My experience so far is that I struggle to learn them *with* the
gismu, but that learning them after I can say the gismu helps me
remember the gismu, because they're similar to them.
So if later I'm struggling and trying to remember what comes after
snanu, knowing the rafsi sic has helped me remember the gismu stici.
It was a pretty cool effect, actually.
So my current best understanding is to:
a) start with the gismu only. Learn them well enough to say them
and use either these here didactic bridi or a "Same Conversation"
along the same lines as the Universal Speed Curriculum's use
of djica, porsi, dunda, lebna.
b) Learn the rafsi if and when you want to. For the farno valsi
porsi specifically, this happens a bit early, because the rafsi
are used for the 8 word version of the list, which includes
lujvo, once you've got the four-word version of the list down.
c) Don't try to learn both the gismu and rafsi together, but learn
them separately and combine them afterwards, much like appending
canja, jbera, or zerle'a (trade, borrow, steel) to the djica,
porsi, dunda, lebna list.
I've been stuck at the part of A where you have the same
conversation, because I don't always remember the places for a
gismu. I want to experiment with didactic bridi to see if it helps
me have better "Same Conversations" in the same way that memorizing
valsi porsi help me remember an individual word while having a "Same
Conversation."
-Alan
On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 01:00:18PM -0500, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote:
> I would just like to caution against incorporating rafsi into basic WAYK
> wordlists. I think the WAYK way of learning rafsi would be "not at all",
> or at least not until you start learning to form basic lujvo and can
> explain how to do so in lojban.
>
> Then again, you know more about WAYK than I do.
>
> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 12:52 PM, .alyn.post.
> <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>
> I've brought this issue up once before, but I can articulate a
> little better what I'm looking for, so I'm updating with new
> information.
>
> I've been using a "Where are your Keys?" technique for memorizing
> vocabulary called "Craig's List." As translated to Lojban, I call
> them {valsi porsi}. Here are two examples:
>
> [2]http://lodockikumazvati.org/valsi_porsi/gismu/skari/
> [3]http://lodockikumazvati.org/valsi_porsi/gismu/farna/
>
> I memorize these by memorizing their ASL sign and the order that I
> say them in. I do this both for the gismu and the rafsi, and in the
> case of the farna valsi porsi, the lujvo created from that set.
>
> I've been struggling over how to also include place structure, so I
> can start by saying "stuna snanu stici berti," move to "sun nan sic
> ber," move to "stuna nanstuna snanu ..." and then finally a bridi
> that describes all of the place structures that are common between
> this set of valsi. The goal is to build from one small pice to the
> whole notion (gismu, rafsi, sumti tcita) of a wordlist.
>
> I've been looking for a statement that I could use that would be
> true for all members of the farna valsi porsi, or a statement
> template that would be true by varying a pattern. I was reminded of
> a (class of) phrase a friend of mine uses sometimes:
>
> "I'm tired like a very tired thing."
>
> Roughly translated into my best attempt at Lojban:
>
> .i mi tatpi du'i lo tatpi
>
> I'm wondering if this kind of statement has legs as a short didactic
> bridi that I can use to remember place structure for gismu. For
> my farna example:
>
> .i mi stuna lo stuna
> I'm east of an east thing.
>
> It might even make more sense to say:
>
> .i mi stuna lo stici
> I'm east of a west thing
>
> Or getting all of the place structures:
>
> .i mi stuna lo stuna lo mi manri
> I'm east of an east thing in my frame of reference.
>
> Can anyone here generalize this at all? What am I reaching for here
> and can the Lojban be more succinct or general beyond the farna
> case? How am I doing with this direction of thinking, can you do
> better?
>
> -Alan
> --
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> Alex R
>
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> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 2. http://lodockikumazvati.org/valsi_porsi/gismu/skari/
> 3. http://lodockikumazvati.org/valsi_porsi/gismu/farna/
> 4. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
> 5. mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 6. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en
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