Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: ci lo gerku vs lo ci gerku

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

  Ah, but I teach them valuable life lessons -- like ascertaining exactly what "all" involves in a given transaction before embraking on a task.  And they're all too smart to fall for it any more :-) 

 

  Your sentence doesn't assert anything about what would happen if there were >0 9-tailed dogs.  It makes the claim that there ARE NO 9-tailed dogs, and that they like bones.  (but again, you can say anything about them, since there are 0 of them, and still be making a true statement).

        --gejyspa

 

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

haha, gejyspa, you're kind of a jerk ;)

I guess it could also be a way of translating stuff from english like "if there WERE 9-tailed-dogs, they would probably like bones" -> {pe'i lo no sozrebge'u cu nelci la'a tu'a lo bongu}

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

  No, no, it's ALWAYS true.  And I didn't say it was necessarily useful, I just said it wsan't nonsense.  After all, I use the equivalent English with my kids all the time -- you know, like "I'll give you all the dollars in my pocket if you clean your room....Good job, I now give you the zero dollars that are in my pocket."

                 --gejyspa

 

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

But what's the purpose.  {lo no gerku cu crino cirla .ije lo no gerku cu se rebla}.  If you can say anything about {lo no gerku} (whether it is true or false) then what is the purpose of it?

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

2011/5/7 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
>
> What about "ro lo no prane ke xirdegmei namcu cu gumpilji lo su'o so ficysi'u
> namcu"? ("xirdegmei" is opposed to "landegmei".) It has been proved that they
> must have at least nine different factors, that they are not divisible by
> 105, etc.; but no one has found a single one, and some mathematicians suspect
> they don't exist.

If you are saying that "ro lo no broda cu brode" could be interpreted
as "if there were any broda, they would brode, but in fact there
aren't any broda", then I guess you could interpret it that way. From
a logical point of view "lo no broda" is both a referring _expression_
and not referring to anything, so we can only try things like mixing
two different contexts to make sense of it.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

  I don't believe "lo no gerku cu blabi" to be self contradictory/nonsense. 

  Consider a room containing three white dogs -- lo ci gerku cu blabi

  I take one away -- lo re gerku cu blabi

  I take another away -- lo pa gerku cu blabi

  I take the last one away -- lo no gerku cu blabi 

  Of course, when I take the last one away, I can equally truthfully say "lo no gerku cu xekri".  But in all those cases I can say "ro gerku [poi zvati lo kumfa ku'o] cu blabi".  It's jsut a question of whether I am specifying their cardinality (ci,re,pa,no) or not (ro).

 

              --gejyspa

 

 

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