Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: ci lo gerku vs lo ci gerku

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> On Tuesday 10 May 2011 19:49:03 Jorge Llambías wrote:
>> You seem to be saying that "se nomei" expresses a relationship between
>> the empty set and some elements that don't exist.
>
> It expresses the relationship between the empty set and the empty mass.

What do you put in x3? "zi'o"?

In any case, we don't really know what an ordinary mass is, so the
empty mass is even more mysterious. If it's just the elements of the
set taken together, then there's no such thing as an empty mass, since
in the empty sets there are no elements to take together. Even
singleton masses are somewhat suspect since taking one element
together is kind of silly, but at least you can define a singleton
mass as just the single element. If it's something else, then we are
beyond ordinary predicate logic.

I am certainly not opposed to using the "nomei" in a playful manner, I
probably have used it some time, but let's not pretend it's logical.
It's like that famous Nobody that the messenger passsed on the road.

(BTW, the place structure I favor for -mei is different than the
official one, since I avoid sets and I prefer not to use
mass-language, but my preferred place structure for PAmei, "x1 is/are
PA x2", does not turn "nomei" into a logical predicate either.)

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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