[lojban-beginners] Re: More Turner/Nicholas lesson questions

[der Mouse <mouse@Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA>]

[me, Mouse]
[mi noi la maus.] <-- is this a fair translation of the previous line?
>> [...] Turner/Nicholas lessons [...]

>> Lesson 9, Exercise 4 (collapse two sentences into one with poi), item 5:
>> 	.i mi viska va le barja le ninmu .i mi klama le barja le briju
>> [my answers]
>> 	.i mi viska va le barja poi mi klama ke'a le briju ku'o le ninmu
>> 	.i mi viska va le barja poi se klama mi le briju ku'o le ninmu
>> [is the second correct?]

[Robin Turner <robin@bilkent.edu.tr>]
> In the second example, "le briju" gets stuck to the "klama", I think.

Yes; it's in the x3 slot of klama.  But that's true of the first as
well, and of the solution given (... poi mi klama fi le briju ...).

[Nora LeChevalier <noras@cox.net>]
> I am a bit confused by the answers you've been given to this.  All of
> them look equivalent to me.  Here is the breakdown of what they mean.
> If I'm mistaken, I'm sure someone will correct me.
> [...]

Your analysis is more or less identical to my own, so if we're wrong at
least we have one another for company in our error :)

Since Lojban has a machine-parseable grammar, I'm very tempted to
download the grammar and build a parsing program around it to do this
sort of thing - if I can feed it sentences and get this kind of
analysis mechanically, it should help me figure out where my mistake is
when I make one.  (Of course, such a program likely already exists.
It's so obvious surely someone has already done it, and I haven't
really gone looking yet to see.)

>> Lesson 9, Exercise 6 answer, item 1:
>>      Note: That odd expression lo cacra be li pimu is in fact how
>>      you'd normally say 'half an hour.'  [...]  So "Reading this
>>      lesson took me two hours" would be in Lojban lenu mi tcidu le
>>      vi ve cilre cu cacra li re.
>> So why is it "cacra li re" but not "cacra li pimu" - why the lo...be?
>> [...guess...] and if so, why is the be needed [...]?

[Robin Turner <robin@bilkent.edu.tr>]
> Because of the "lo".  [...]
[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]
> "lo" makes in into a sumti, [...]
[Nora LeChevalier <noras@cox.net>]
> [the same answer, in a form that doesn't lend itself to brief quoting]

These answer the second question, yes; I shouldn't have needed that
reminder (that to fill a place of a selbri inside a le/lo/etc, the
sumti must be marked by be/bei).

As for the first, I think maybe I've answered that on my own: "lo cacra
be li pimu" _is_ the same thing as "cacra li pimu", just transformed
from a (partially unspecified) bridi into a sumti - is that accurate?

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