[lojban-beginners] Re: Brivla => sumti?

[der Mouse <mouse@Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA>]

>> That is, can I talk about how "John running through the store makes
>> a mess for me to clean up?"

> What you want to refer to is _the event of_ John running through the
> store.

> le nu la djan. bajra klama fo le zarci cu rinka zo'e poi se lumci mi
> [the event (John run-go with-route the store)] cause (something 
> such-that is-cleaned by-me)

> le nu la djan. bajra klama fo le zarci cu mukti le nu mi lumci ri
> [the event (John run-go with-route the store)] motivate [the event (I 
> clean it)]

> la djan. bajra veka'a le zarci .isemu'ibo mi lumci ri
> (John run via-route the store) and-as-a-motivational-effect (I clean it)

Thinking about these, I find myself uncomfortable with them.

In the latter two, what does "ri" refer to?  The store, if I've got the
rules right - but that isn't quite right, because it's lost the link
(implemented with "mess" in the original) indicating that le te lumci
is directly caused by John's running through the store.  As far as I
can see, either of the last two could equally well apply to "John's
running through the store prompted me to clean it [but perhaps not
because John's actions made it any worse - maybe John would have walked
instead if the store had been satisfactorily clean already]".

I think I see a problem with the first one too.  It looks to me as
though it's saying that John's running caused le se lumci, not le te
lumci.  Shouldn't this end in something like "rinka zo'e poi te lumci fi mi"?
Or perhaps "rinka zo'e poi mi lumci fi ke'a"?  Or even just "rinka le
te lumci be fi mi"?

Or have I just managed to get myself confuzzled again?

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