[lojban-beginners] Re: Where can I learn more about logic?

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 11:21:17AM -0500, Matt Arnold wrote:
> It astonishes me that a Lojbanist would write ?[Ix]( Gx & [Ay](Fy
> <=> y=x))? on a Lojban website of all things, when it's possible
> to say it in Lojban instead. 

PC doesn't actually speak Lojban.

He also believes that Lojban is not sufficiently precise in this
arena.

> That having been said, jbofi'e returned a syntax error on your
> string. 

Erk.  Let me go figure that out, because it looks fine to me.

*Oh*.  Can't have a zo'u clause after at "i je", because the
previous zo'u clause carries through and you'd essentially be
over-riding it.  Easiest way to fix:

su'o da zo'u da broda i je ro de brode i jo de du da

> But I've translated it as follows.
>
> Take it for a given that there exists this one thing. 

At least one.

> Whatever that may be, it is in such-and-such a relationship. Also,
> each of whatever the second thing is. OK now take all that stuff
> as a given as well. That second thing, is in this other
> such-and-such a relationship, 

Full stop here.  Add "The above is all true"

> if-and-only-if the second thing shares the exact same identity
> with the first thing.
>
> As I learned Lojban vocabulary, I long ago passed up "zo'u" since
> "end prenex" means absolutely nothing to me and I thought it was
> specialized expertise that would not be useful in normal language.

Well, that's generally true.  It ends definition of logical terms.
It also terminates the topic in a topic-comment sentence, like "lo
zdani zo'u mi klama" == "The house: I go", which mirrors Chinese
sentence structure, apparently.

> Have I translated it correctly as taking something as a given or
> an axiom? 

Close enough.

> Even if not, I'm a whole heck of a lot closer to
> figuring it out from Lojban than I would be with ?[Ix]( Gx &
> [Ay](Fy <=> y=x))?.

That's very cool.  Thanks!

-Robin

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