[lojban-beginners] Re: gismu for nationalities

[Jorge "Llambías" <jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar>]

--- Adam COOPER wrote:
> What is the rationale behind using gismu rather than cmene for
> nationalities? 

They are predicates, so they should be brivla (whether gismu,
lujvo or fu'ivla). They should probably be fu'ivla rather than 
gismu. {cmene} could be used for the names of countries, but 
to predicate a nationality it makes sense to use a brivla.

> Or perhaps the better question is, given that this
> decision was taken, how was it determined which nationalities got
> gismu (porto) & which didn't (Nigeria, Vietnam, Italy?)? 

The bottom line: arbitrarily. 

Here is what CLL says on the subject:

<<
Finally, there are the cultural gismu, which are also borrowed, but by
modifying a word from one particular language, instead of using the
multi-lingual gismu creation algorithm. Cultural gismu are used for words that
have local importance to a particular culture; other cultures or languages may
have no word for the concept at all, or may borrow the word from its home
culture, just as Lojban does. In such a case, the gismu algorithm, which uses
weighted averages, doesn't accurately represent the frequency of usage of the
individual concept. Cultural gismu are not even required to be based on the six
major languages.

The six Lojban source languages:

   jungo       Chinese (from ``Zhong1 guo2'')
    glico       English
    xindo       Hindi
    spano       Spanish
    rusko       Russian
    xrabo       Arabic

Seven other widely spoken languages that were on the list of candidates for
gismu-making, but weren't used:

   bengo       Bengali
    porto       Portuguese
    baxso       Bahasa Melayu/Bahasa Indonesia
    ponjo       Japanese (from ``Nippon'')
    dotco       German (from ``Deutsch'')
    fraso       French (from ``Français'')
    xurdo       Urdu

(Urdu and Hindi began as the same language with different writing systems, but
have now become somewhat different principally in borrowed vocabulary.
Urdu-speakers were counted along with Hindi-speakers when weights were assigned
for gismu-making purposes.) 
Countries with a large number of speakers of any of the above languages (where
the meaning of ``large'' is dependent on the specific language):

English: merko American brito British skoto Scottish sralo Australian kadno
Canadian 
Spanish: gento Argentinian mexno Mexican 
Russian: softo Soviet/USSR vukro Ukrainian 
Arabic: filso Palestinian jerxo Algerian jordo Jordanian libjo Libyan lubno
Lebanese misro Egyptian (from ``Mizraim'') morko Moroccan rakso Iraqi sadjo
Saudi sirxo Syrian 
Bahasa Melayu/Bahasa Indonesia: bindo Indonesian meljo Malaysian 
Portuguese: brazo Brazilian 
Urdu: kisto Pakistani 
The continents (and oceanic regions) of the Earth: 
   bemro       North American (from ``berti merko'')
    dzipo       Antarctican (from ``cadzu cipni'')
    ketco       South American (from ``Quechua'')
    friko       African
    polno       Polynesian/Oceanic
    ropno       European
    xazdo       Asiatic

A few smaller but historically important cultures: 
   latmo       Latin/Roman
    srito       Sanskrit
    xebro       Hebrew/Israeli
    xelso       Greek (from ``Hellas'')

Major world religions: 
   budjo       Buddhist
    dadjo       Taoist
    muslo       Islamic/Moslem
    xriso       Christian

A few terms that cover multiple groups of the above:

   jegvo       Jehovist (Judeo-Christian-Moslem)
    semto       Semitic
    slovo       Slavic
    xispo       Hispanic (New World Spanish)
>>

mu'o mi'e xorxes



		
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