[lojban-beginners] Re: A few questions...

[Matt Arnold <mattarn@123.net>]

Hal,
   I'm all in favor of it. For each convention that is invented for diagramming, the question to be asked is how does it instruct the viewer and clarify the structure? There are hundreds of selma'o, which is too many to come up with a unique diagramming method for each one. I would recommend that we come up with diagramming methods for these more general categories of cmavo instead:
- Abstracts - Attitudinals - Connectives - Descriptors - Discursives - Keyboard (alphanumeric, {ro}, verbal punctuation, shifts, etc.) - Math expressions - Modals - Prosumti/bridi - Qualifiers (NAI, LAhE, NA, NAhE, LUhU) - Relativizers (clause/phrase) - Sentence Structure (TUhE, FA, TUhU, NUhI, FAhO, CEhE, FUhE, ZEI, ad infinitum) - Tenses - Vocatives
   Perhaps even some of these can share a diagramming method, such as vocatives and attitudinals.
-epkat

lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org wrote:
>Matt Arnold wrote:
>> I've thought about this for quite a while myself and would like very much for it to be developed. The output of {jbofi'e}, although good, is still linear and does very little to communicate non-verbally through graphic design. Ideally, it would offer the option of output of a JPEG of nested boxes representing bridi, selbri, sumti and so forth, with function words fitting into them like sockets or adapters.
>> I went partway in that direction in the PDFs that I made of the first 19 pages of the Level 0 Booklet, a project in progress, which typesets and illustrates the diagrams with nested tables.
>> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=89
>> However, a great thing would be something representing how a gismu is like a gadget that has up to five sockets in which to plug pronouns or descriptors:
>> http://www.nemorathwald.com/lojbantoy.jpg
>> You see, now this is helpful and instructive to a newbie for understanding the grammar, in a way that the jbofi'e output is definitely not. The visual idea can be taken much further. For instance, modals would take the shape of a new slot or socket that can be tacked on, which immediately visually teaches what a modal is.
>
>Matt,
>
>Thanks for these comments. We're pretty much in agreement on this matter.
>
>The only thing is that I am used to thinking in terms of the way we used
>to do it for English... No, not forcing Lojban into an English mold, that
>would be awful. I just mean I'm used to a linear "main branch" with modifiers
>branching off from it -- no elaborate boxes or shading.
>
>Of course, I don't yet know enough Lojban to create a system like this.
>
>I'd be tempted to start with a tall vertical bar blocking off the gismu
>from the sumti, and shorter bars separating the sumti.
>
>Simple example:  mi klama
>
>            |
>     klama  | mi | (zo'e) | (zo'e) | (zo'e) | (zo'e)
>     -----------------------------------------------
>            |
>
>(This may look wrong unless you are using a monospaced font as I am.)
>
>Of course we have to handle modifiers somehow... not sure about articles
>yet.
>
>Example:  le gerku cu batci le nanmu va
>
>            |
>      batci | le gerku | le nanmu | (zo'e) | (zo'e)
>      ---------------------------------------------
>            |            \
>            cu            va
>
>Tell me your thoughts on this general approach.
>
>Cheers,
>Hal

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