[lojban-beginners] Re: Diagramming Lojban

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On 7/31/05, Hal Fulton <hal9000@hypermetrics.com> wrote:
> As I understand it, vi/va/vu are rather like: here, there, way over there.
> 
> It modifies differently depending on its position in the sentence. At the
> end, it adds a new sumti to the standard sumti -- meaning something like
> "over there near something unspecified."

vi/va/vu, as well as zi, za, zu, ve'i, ve'a, ve'u, ze'i, ze'a, ze'u,
pu, ca, ba, bu'u, ne'i, ne'a, fa'a, ta'e, ba'o, pu'o, za'o, co'a,
ka'e, bai, bau, ki'u, ri'a, etc. etc. etc. (lots more) all behave 
in essentially the same way: they add an argument place to 
the selbri. (They are called "tags") They can be placed directly 
in front of the selbri, in which case the place they add cannot 
be explicitly filled, or they can be placed as one more among 
the sumti, in which case, if the sumti place is not filled, they 
are terminated with {ku}. So all of these are basically the same:

 le gerku va batci le nanmu
 va ku le gerku cu batci le nanmu
 le gerku va ku batci le nanmu
 le gerku cu batci va ku le nanmu
 le gerku cu batci le nanmu va

Notice that when {va} is used directly in front of the selbri,
{cu} is not necessary, because {va} already indicates that 
the preceding sumti has terminated, so there is no danger of
{batci} being taken as part of the single sumti {le gerku batci}.
Also, when {va} is at the very end, {ku} is not needed after it.

There are many other possible word orders, of course, 
such as:

le gerku le nanmu va batci
va ku le gerku le nanmu cu batci
le gerku va ku le nanmu cu batci
le gerku le nanmu va ku batci
le gerku le nanmu cu batci va
etc.

The particularity of the vi/va/vu tags is that while it is clear
what they mean when used alone, there is some dispute 
as to the meaning of the sumti they introduce. There are 
basically three possibilities:

(1) {va ko'a} = There at ko'a. 
(2) {va ko'a} = Some medium distance away from ko'a.
(3) {va ko'a} = A ko'a distance away (as in "two miles away").

Meaning (1) is mentioned in the ma'oste, but it is
practically obsolete. Meaning (2) is the one given in CLL,
and thus so far the most "official". Meaning (3) is the one
I prefer, because there are other ways of doing (2) but no
other simple way of saying (3), and also because vi/va/vu
are displacement magnitude indicators, so it is natural that
what they tag is the displacement magnitude, in the same 
way in which for example ve'i/ve'a/ve'u tag the magnitude of
the space occupied. In any case, (2) and (3) almost never
cause confusion, because for example:

   le gerku cu batci le nanmu va le zdani
  
is almost certainly meant with sense (2) and

  le gerku cu batci le nanmu va lo mitre be li mu

is almost certainly meant with sense (3). 

mu'o mi'e xorxes