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[lojban-beginners] Re: Your PodCast



Matt Arnold wrote:

On 9/20/05, *Colin Wright* <colin.wright@denbridgemarine.com <mailto:colin.wright@denbridgemarine.com>> wrote:

    Actually, I don't know if my comments about the PodCast will make
    it to the
    list - I'm having trouble getting things through. Here's a copy ...

    ----

    Briefly, I think the "podcast" (whatever that is) was brilliant. I
    downloaded
    the MP3 and transcript and am working through it, understanding
    the spoken
    lojban and repeating the words.

    I have a real problem with part of it, though. Throughout the
    letter "o" is
    being pronounced as the vowel sound(s) in these words:

    low
    though
    toe
    crow

    This includes, specifically, in the word "lojban". My
    understanding from the
    written material is that the "o" sound should be a pure vowel,
    pronounced as
    in "topic" or "hot".

    Can anyone enlighten me in this regard?

    I'll more on to other misunderstandings after we've got some
    feedback on this
    one. I have to repeat, though, that this is an awesome achievement.

    Kudos. .iosai

ki'esai kalin.
Notice how I spell your name. You spelled it koe-leen. (Actually, you might be correct, because I've heard of one or two Colins pronounced koelin.) You misunderstood what you have read. "Topic", "Colin", "hot", make an "ahhh" sound. In Lojban this is always represented by the character "a". (Lojban has no other "a" sounds such as the "a" in "Matt" or "cat.") English speakers usually slur the "o" sound in "low", "crow", "toe", to blend into the "oooo" sound (from flute, root, crude) on the end of the vowel, and that is why "o" is almost always pronounce impurely by English speakers. Listen in the broadcast to how I try to pronouce "o" with what appears (to English speakers) to be a foreign accent. This is a pure "o". Pronounce Lojban "Lowzhbahn" except without the "oo" as in "you" creeping into the end of the letter "o".

I'm confused.

Quote from the grammar ref:

[o]
   The preferred pronunciation of Lojban ``o''. As in the French
   ``haute (cuisine)'' or Spanish ``como''. There is no exact English
   equivalent of this sound. The nearest GA equivalent is the ``o'' of
   ``dough'' or ``joke'', but it is essential that the off-glide (a
   [w]-like sound) at the end of the vowel is not pronounced when
   speaking Lojban. The RP sound in these words is [«w] in IPA terms,
   and has no [o] in it at all; unless you can speak with a Scots,
   Irish, or American accent, you may have trouble with this sound.

Pronunciation of haute: http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/pron/H0085700.wav

But then... quote from the textbook:


 Vowels

There are six vowels in Lojban.

a 		

as in /f*a*ther/ (not as in /h*a*t/)

e 		

as in /g*e*t/

i 		

as in /mach*i*ne/ or (Italian) /v*i*no/ (not as in /h*i*t/)

o 		

as in /b*o*ld / or /m*o*re/ — not as in /s*o*/ (this should be a 'pure' sound.)

u 		

as in /c*oo*l/ (not as in /b*u*t/)


So I pronounce 'Colin' as Lojbanic 'kolyn' with my New Zealand accent. Here, we never use "ahhh" in words such as Topic, Colin, hot... that's strictly North American English.

Matt: pe'i I also think that you're pronouncing your "o"'s a bit too much as "low", and I can hear a slight dipthong creeping in.

Michael.