[lojban-beginners] Re: Up-to-date definition of Lojban

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 05:59:03PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> On 11/19/05, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 11:33:02AM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> > > I don't see why beginners should be treated as if they were
> > > incapable of using their brains.
> >
> > It has nothing to do with using their brains or not.  It has to
> > do with not presenting *unfinished works* to people as though
> > they were canon.  They're not.  Period.
> 
> I haven't seen anyone do that. I certainly have not.
> 
> > If I had thought people were going to go around trumpeting the
> > BPFK stuff as gospel before we were done, I likely wouldn't have
> > taken the jatna job.
> 
> Nobody is trumpeting it as gospel.

Then I've repeatedly misread you in some fashion.  Every time *I've*
seen you explain xorlo, to my recollection, you've done it without
any comment whatsoever that it was tentative and could be over-ruled
at any time.

I've realized that I've been conflating two issues, so let me spread
them out:

1.  I think it is a pedagogical mistake to present newbies in any
field of endeavour with more than the bare minimum they need to
understand basic conceps.  I think that giving *the CLL* to newbies
is a mistake, but until recently we haven't had anything better.  I
think introducing them to the BPFK is a pedagogical error of the
first degree, on the order of teaching someone English using
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/020530902X (The
Elements Of Style).  It is simply bad teaching to start beginners
with abstruse discussions of core elements of a language; you teach
them how to say hellow first.  However, this is merely a difference
of opinion, and ultimately unimportant.

2.  I recall that you (xorxes) have, multiple times, explained xorlo
to people without any warning.  Without, in fact, even telling them
that what you were explaining was a variant proposol or at odds with
the CLL.  I can dig up IRC examples of this, if you wish.  I
consider this not a difference of opinion, but rather deception.  I
myself have explained xorlo to newbies quite a few times on IRC, but
I *always* preface by explaining that it is part of an unfinished
effort and could be repealed at any time, what it conflicts with,
and so on.  Hell, I do that *for LFB*; the BPFK stuff is even *more*
up in the air.  Not doing so is something I see as actively harmful
and deceptive, and I don't like it.

-Robin

-- 
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"
Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/