[lojban-beginners] Re: problem

[Alex Martini <alexjm@umich.edu>]

[Lojban spelling in square braces]
{English spelling in curly braces}

From a "how do I make these sounds?" point of view, [ ' ] is the  
easier to
describe. If you speak any of the dialects of English I know of, just
use your normal {h} sound, as in {help} or {has}. Or, if you prefer,  
you can
use {th} as in {pith} since that's one of the alternate pronunciations.

The [x] is a little bit tricky, because it's a sound that we don't have
in most dialects of English. If you pronounce the words {loch} and
{lock} differently, then the sound made by {ch} is probably what you
want.

Another way to think of it is by analogy.  Compare the first sound in
{change} and {shame}. Notice how in {change} your tongue traps the air,
and then releases it, while in {shame} the tongue just gets close to the
roof of your mouth.  Try saying {chay} and {shay}. Now say {kay} and
{gay} -- your tongue traps the air just like it did in {chay}. What you
want is for your tongue to touch the same place as it does in {gay} and
{kay}, but to just get close like it does in {shay}.

If you aren't getting it maybe compare {shay} with {tay} to feel the  
stopping
versus non-stopping. The problem is that English doesn't really have a
good pair like {k} and {x} make in Lojban so I use {chay} as an  
approximation.
But if you break up {ch} very carefully, it's actually {t} followed  
very closely
by {sh}. This is why we write [tc] for {ch} when copying names into  
Lojban.

mu'omi'e .aleks.

On Oct 12, 2006, at 5:42 AM, Philip Newton wrote:

> On 10/12/06, UrchinStar47 <urchinstar47@gmail.com> wrote:
> > What is the real difference betwean ' and x in Lojban?
>
> It's like the difference between {c} and {b} -- they're two separate
> phonemes. {li'o} "[omitted text]" is something different from {lixo}
> "how many?".
>
> Phone_t_ically, {x} is, AFAIK, [x] (the voiceless velar fricative),
> while {'} is some fricative that can't be confused with any other
> fricative -- popular choices include [T] (voiceless dental fricative)
> and [h] (voiceless glottal fricative).
>
> My impression is that [h] is the more popular of the two, so in
> pronunciation, {'} is to {x} in Lojban as {h} is to {hx} in Esperanto.
> (Where the difference is phonemic, too: horo "hour" vs hxoro "choir".)
>
> mu'o mi'e .filip.