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[lojban-beginners] Re: BPFK Taskmaster
- To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
- Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: BPFK Taskmaster
- From: ANDREW PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com>
- Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 14:08:30 -0700 (PDT)
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What do you mean by "...jbovlaste is to be a central repository of The Right Word(s)". My understanding from previous communications was that ther are no 'official' lujvo and that therefore they are just proposede words. Having said that, there are other lujvo lists, so in what way are these right.....relative to them?
mu'o mi'e .andrus.
----- Original Message ----
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:34:09 PM
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: BPFK Taskmaster
On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 05:48:21AM -0700, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote:
> coi rodo
>
> I'm excited that something is finally happening to ensure that
> tasks are actually done (I hope this isn't premature). Since
> starting on lojban about 6 months ago, I've communicated my
> concerns about the inadequacy of learning materials (e.g. no
> simple 'approved' texts for beginning beginners) and problems with
> vocabulary (e.g. the error in having {kisto} mean both Pakistani
> and Pushtu, the inappropriateness of having {xingu'e} mean India).
> The responses by 'the powers that be', while sympathetic, have
> left me with the impression that the mechanisms or processes for
> getting these things resolved are weak or non-existent.
That is very true, and has (almost) nothing to do with the BPFK.
We are all volunteers: no-one, to my knowledge, has ever received
compensation other than satisfaction for Lojban work. This means
that if no-one feels like working on beginner material, it doesn't
get done. Simple as that. (Having said that, I think
http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/book1.html
is pretty good, but I haven't been a rank beginner for a long time).
On the other hand, most of the really skilled Lojbanists *are* BPFK
members, and most of us prioritize BPFK work about other Lojban
work. The problem is that BPFK work is hard and slow, so many of us
end up not doing much of anything at all. It's my hope and belief
that after the BPFK is done an explosion of things like beginner
materials will occur.
As for vocabulary nits specifically, those are at least partly the
BPFK's purview. In the extra-specific case of cultural gismu,
however, those are known to be fundamentally flawed *by their
nature*; it is expected for speakers to understand this and not be
assholes about it. Regardless, the BPFK won't be putting serious
work into them until the cmavo are done.
> So while the appointment of a taskmaster is essential, the
> definition of the tasks and their prioritization is vital. Here's
> a suggestion. Why not poll beginners (real beginners) on what
> they find to be the biggest impediments to learning lojban?
Because it has nothing to do with the BPFK's mission to know that
information. If someone else wants to gather that information, they
can feel free. The BPFK is *not* interested in making major changes
to the language unless a serious problem exists; "the CLL
contradicts itself" is a serious problem, "it's hard to learn" is
not (the exception is things that are actually *impossible to learn,
the only one of which that's been talked about to my knowledge are
certain cmevla morphology issues).
> On the issue of vocabulary, I agree 100% with Martin (I think it
> was he) that having general usage finally determine the meaning of
> a lujvo is unrealistic in a community as small as ours. This way,
> 20 years from now, we will still be arguing over the right word
> for 'neighbour' and still won't have a word for 'sports'.
Umm.
No-one's arguing over these things. If there's more than one, use
whichever you like. There's more than one way to say many things in
Lojban; that doesn't make any of them wrong.
Having said that, the whole point of jbovlaste is to be a central
repository of The Right Word(s); I'm going to be working on it more
to make it easier to use (including self-sign-up pages, although I'm
hoping someone else will do that).
-Robin
--
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"
Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/