[lojban-beginners] Re: mp3 files: can you help?

[Alex Martini <alexjm@umich.edu>]

On Jun 3, 2007, at 6:13 PM, m.kornig@sondal.net wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> It's been an exciting moment for me: Thanks to
> Hans, Matt and Matt's grilfriend (female voice)
> I've heard other people speak Lojban for the
> first time. A big thank you to all three of them!
>
> Please find their 15 recordings enclosed.
>
> I would like to comment on a few points and ask
> for your advice/views:
>
> (1) The recordings have different bandwidths:
>     64kbps (Matt and his girlfriend) and 128kbps (Hans).
>     Clearly, 64kbps doesn't seem to be sufficient
>     for speech. Due to this technical problem Matt's
>     "p" in "pa" is absent and his "c" in "ci" is
>     very shrill.
>
>     Matt, could you try to record your voices again
>     using 128kbps?
>
> (2) I'm surprised (and a bit puzzled) by the variety of
>     accents. In particular:
>
>     (2a) The length of the vowels are very different.
>          Compare for instance Hans' "mu" (short) on the
>          one hand and Matt's "mu" (long) on the other.
>          Hans' "pa" is relatively short, too.
>
>          Are the lengths of the five principal vowels
>          in numbers meant to be different? Personally,
>          I speak all vowels relatively long. But I'm
>          only a starter and that may be wrong...

I'm not an expert, but as far as I know vowel length is not important  
in Lojban. You can pronounce them as long or short as you like. The  
only case where it's reccommended to use shorter vowels if if you're  
adding pronounced vowels that aren't written. For example, if {mlatu}  
is hard to say, you can stick a very short vowel -- any one that's  
not already used, such as the {i} in {bit} in American English -- in  
between {m} and {l}.

But that's a special case, and I'd say you should probably learn to  
speak more mainstream Lojban without the buffer vowels. The normal  
vowels don't have any particular length requirements.

> I would appreciate the views of experienced Lojban speakers
> on these points.
>
> [ li'o ]
>
> Cheers, Martin

I'm going to answer the rest of these together. Watch out, especially  
as a beginner learning Lojban from English, that you don't use the  
English vowel pronunciations. In English, what we write as one vowel  
and call one vowel is very often multiple vowel sounds.

(this table assumes you've got a fixed width font, like Courier set)

English   Lojban
long a    {ei}
long e    {i}
long o    {ou}
long u    {iu}

Grab yourself a sucker (lolipop) -- or a straw or popsicle stick if  
you'd prefer less sweet. Put it in your mouth, stand in front of a  
mirror, and pronounce the English "long" vowels. You'll be able to  
feel and see that your lips and toungue move while you say the vowel.

(and another table...)

English   Lojban	    Movement
long a    {ei}      tongue moves forward
long e    {i}       tongue rises a little bit
long o    {ou}      lips go together
long u    {iu}      tongue drops; lips go together

Now that you've got that figured out -- stop it!! (zo'o) In Lojban,  
your tongue and lips stay STILL when you pronounce them. Try the same  
thing again with the sucker and mirror now, and make sure they aren't  
moving. There is a range of proper vowels, but they are all "pure"  
vowels -- the kind where your mouth doesn't move when you say them.

Hope this helps!

mu'o mi'e .aleks.