[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [lojban] pro-sumti question



In a message dated 7/4/2002 2:27:35 PM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes:


>Now, to be sure, the implicit external
>quantifier on {le} is {ro}, so we are referring to all the dyadic masses I
>have in mind, but that is presumably just the one composed of the dog(s)
>and
>the cat(s).  But that does NOT mean we are referring to the WHOLE of that
>mass.  Absent some specific indication, we are dealing {pisu'o}ness.

That doesn't make sense to me. {le broda} refers to each of the
broda I have in mind, be it {le gerku} (each dog), {le gunma}
(each mass), or {le remei} (each pair). It does not refer to
some part of a dog, some part of a mass, or some part of a pair.
For that I'd have to say explicitly {pisu'o le broda}. The
implicit quantifier of {lei} plays no role here.


The second sentence is correct in general, the third for dogs but not for masses: {gerku} refers to  dogs in the usual way, {gunma}  and {remei} refer to masses in the usual way; the usual way to refer to dogs is as wholes, the usual way to refer to masses is as parts -- that is what the quantifiers on {lei} say.

<>Now, clearly if one dog in the mass of critters is tired,
>the some part of that mass is tired and so, in Lojban, the mass is tired:
>{le
>remei cu tatpi}.  It may be unreasonable, but it is by the Book.

I'm not sure it is by the Book, I don't have it with me now
so I can't check, but does it go as far as to say that? I thought
it only messed up the implicit quantifier of {lei}. In any case,
when the Book makes no sense, I don't follow it.>

I don't suppose the Book does say this explicitly -- it is remarkably poor on semantics and ontology.  But, on the assumption (which I am obligated to make if I am to learn **Lojban**, rather than a kindred -- or not so -- language) that the quantifiers on {lei} are correct, that has to be the way it works: {le remei} is, in context, exactly equivalent to {lei re danlu} and subject to same interpretation -- if not quite exactly the same grammar.


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
{short description of image}

To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.