Re: [lojban] Re: zi, vi, ca, bu'u

[Robert LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org>]

At 02:16 PM 5/11/03 -0700, Jorge "Llambías" wrote:
> > On irc, I said: ma nuzba vi le norge (the example xorxes quotes on phpbb)
> >
> > Is this incorrect or just not as accurate as it should be?
>
> That's hard to say. In Loglan, there is no {bu'u} and {vi} is what
> they use as the space equivalent of {ca}. In early Lojban that was
> the case too. The introduction of {bu'u} occurred later, and the
> (mis)use of {vi} for that function was never succesfully erradicated.
> So that use of vi is sanctiones by usage although technically
> incorrect.

The answer to this that has let the old Loglan-like usage be grandfathered 
in, is that "zi" means approximate to in time and "vi" means approximate to 
in space.  "approximate" to does not rule out colocation/simultaneity and 
it does allow one to express the very close association in time or space.

> > Usage tends to favour {ca} in such sentences as "mi klama ca le cabdei",
> > but {vi} in "mi citka vi la bastn"
>
> Correct. That usage was carried over from Loglan.

And I would interpret that as meaning that he ate somewhere in the Boston 
area, just as  "mi xabju vi la uacintn" and "mi xabju vi la ferfaks tcad" 
(Fairfax City) but in fact I don't live ne'i either of them.  But it 
wouldn't be wrong for me to use "vi" even if I did live "ne'i".

Similarly, I like the use of "zi" for "on or about" when asked to specify a 
time for a meeting.  It would not mean to me that we will meet a minute or 
two before or after the specified time, merely that the specified starting 
time is approximate (which it usually is for meetings).

lojbab

--
lojbab                                             lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:                 http://www.lojban.org