Re: [lojban] Re: word for "action"

["Philip Newton" <pnewton@gmx.de>]

On 13 May 2004 at 22:14, Zefram wrote:

> xahlee.org wrote:
> >btw, is speed "ni sultra" or "nilsutra"?
> 
> Both.  The latter (a lujvo) expresses as a single word exactly the same
> thing that the former does.

Hm... I don't think that's correct.

"ni sutra" is (as I understand it) a tanru and is, in principle, more 
vague, while lujvo have one precise meaning, similar to gismu. (I think 
a favourite example is that "gerku zdani" could be a house that a dog 
lives in, or a house shaped like a dog, or something else composed of 
the meanings of "gerku" and "zdani", while the lujvo "gerzda" has one 
meaning - whatever the dictionary defined it to have.)

Now, with tanru that have NU (e.g. ni, nu, ka) as their first component 
as a gismu as their second, the ambiguity is probably much less, but I 
wouldn't claim that "ni sutra" and "nilsutra" express "exactly the same 
thing".

> "zukyvla" would be the lujvo.

Or "zu'evla", which gets a better score in the lujvo scoring algorithm. 
(The two are exactly equivalent in meaning, however, by the definition 
of lujvo.)

> What's the process to make a lujvo official? 

At first, I was inclined to say that you can just make them up and 
nobody needs to "bless" them specifically.

However, when I thought about the "lujvo have the unambiguous meaning 
defined in the dictionary", I believe that's not true. And come to 
think of it, I don't know the answer to "how to make a lujvo official".

Is jbovlaste the official dictionary of lujvo expansions? If not, is 
there one? Are all lujvo in NORALUJV.txt official?

After all, one cannot simply look at a lujvo and see the place 
structure, though the dikyjvo/seljvajvo movement attempts to regularise 
this, so there must be some way to look it up. (This would seem to 
imply that people shouldn't try to come up with lujvo on-the-fly but 
should stick to tanru.)

(Interestingly, jbofihe translates "dikyjvo" as "regular (na'i) lujvo; 
misnomer for ri'ijvo" but I'd never heard "ri'ijvo" before. It does 
make a bit of sense now that I've looked at the definition of ritli, 
especially the x3 and x4 places, but I though "seljvajvo" was the 
currently accepted term.)

mu'o mi'e .filip.
-- 
filip.niutyn. <pnewton@gmx.de>
li te'o te'a ka'o bi'e pi'i pai su'i pa du li no