Re: [lojban] {le} and {lo}.

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On 5/19/05, Opi Lauma <opi_lauma@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 1. le gerku - the dog(s)
> (one speaks about dog(s) which has/have been defined
> earlier).
> 
> 2. ci le gerku - three of the dogs
> (one speaks about some three (it is not known which
> three exactly) dogs from earlier defined group of
> dogs).

More or less.

Outer quantifiers are not used to refer, so when you use
{ci le gerku} you are not speaking about some three dogs,
you are speaking about the whole group {le gerku}. The
quantifier just says how many of that group satisfy some
property. For example:

   ci le gerku cu nenri le zdani
   no le gerku cu blabi
   ro le gerku cu xekri

In all three sentences you are speaking of the whole 
group of dogs, {le gerku}. In each sentence, you give information
about the whole group: that none of the dogs are white,
that each of the dogs is black, and that exactly three of
the dogs are inside the house. 

So for me, it doesn't really make much sense to say that
in the first sentence you are speaking about some three
of the dogs, just as it doesn't make sense to say that in
the second sentence you are speaking about none of the 
dogs, but we probably understand the sentence the same 
way anyway.

> 
> 3. le ci gerku - the three dogs
> (one speaks about the three earlier defined dogs).
> 
> 4. re le ci gerku
> (one speaks about some two dogs, from earlier defined
> group consisting of three dogs).
> I think that it is no use to say the two dogs of the
> three dogs {le re le ci gerku}, since if we know which
> two dogs it is spoken about, we do not need to know to
> which group of dogs these two dogs belong. Did I
> correctly understand everything?

{le re le ci gerku} could be used in some context to select
one group out of another, but it is rare, yes.
 
> About {lo}. Is it right that {lo gerku} = {le N
> gerku}, where N is a number of all {gerku} in the
> world?

All of those dogs existing alive at the moment of speaking?
{lo gerku} does not in general have such a precise meaning.
It just means "dogs", or "a dog" in a generic way. For
example to say that the dog is man's best friend you would
use {lo gerku}: {lo gerku cu xagrai pendo lo remna}.

mu'o mi'e xorxes