Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: zvati

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

Moved off of beginners, cuz yeesh.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 03:40:54PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> On 6/13/05, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > I disagreed that zvati was purely locational, because of the way
> > the English was written.  I have been convinced that the
> > intention was locational, and have updated jbovlaste to reflect
> > this.
> 
> I think describing {zvati} as "atemporal" confuses things more
> than anything. Are you going to add "atemporal" to {zunle},
> {crane}, {sruri}, {snanu}, and all other spatial relationships
> too? 

I could if you like.  But I don't find any of them confusing in this
respect; I did find zvati confusing.

[snip examples]

> Are all of these "atemporal"? All of them describe relative 
> positions, but normally they describe simultaneous positions.

None of them specify that they can operate with events in both
places, which is what confused me.

> If I want to say that A is left of where B was, or in front of
> where B was, or around of where B was, or south of where B was,
> then that requires a more elaborate description. Then A is not
> left/in front/around/south of/at B, but rather it is related to a
> place where B was.

Depends on context.

> Spatial relationships assume that the two things being 
> compared are there at the same time. 

Depends on context.

> {zvati} is not special in this regard, so if you describe it as
> "atemporal" all the others would be atemporal too.

*sigh*

Look, it's really simple: I find zvati confusing, because it sounds
to me like it is relating things in both space and time, rather than
just space.  I seem to be wrong.  I want to change the wording to
make the cunfusion I experienced less likely for others.  If you
don't like my wording change, suggest another one.

-Robin

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