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Re: [lojban] Re: lojban logo
Xah,
I've been a graphics professional for five years, and I work for a large advertising corporation. I've designed logos for freelance work. I've read quite a few books on logos and given it a lot of thought. However, for non-profits and non-commercial organizations I usually don't think the logo matters at all.
I'm struggling to search through what you've written to extract statements of *why* the Lojban logo is bad. At one point you said: "The idea behind the lojban logo is great, but the quality, its artistic merits, is worse than nothing." Saying "the idea is great" is a good start to narrowing down your complaint. I'll consider putting together a logo based on a Venn diagram and a Cartesian coordinate system, with a more highly "produced" or "worked-on" style and color scheme, and present it to get to the bottom of what your tastes are. After all, it can't hurt to play around and it might be fun.
-epkat
lojban-list@lojban.org wrote:
>the quality of a logo is easily ascertained by asking for assessment
>any professional in the logo business. To have to state this like a
>defendant is really insulting.
>
>the current situation, where a garbage logo is used while nobody sees
>wrong with it, in fact perhaps feel great about it, is a common
>phenomenon of the OpenSource situation, fill with ignorance and lies.
>
>Following is a message about logos i wrote a couple years ago. It
>should give a indication of what is a good logo.
>(again: I have no expertise in logos. However, the following is basic
>about logos any person who have thought about it should know. It is
>insulting, that these days one have to state and argue for the most
>obvious things among the OpenSourcer ignoramuses and lies.
>
>for those who may be offended here because what seems to be contrary
>opinion, i don't require you to be any expert or connoisseur in logos
>or design, but merely for you to think just 1 hour of your life about
>logo. Yes, just think about logos. Think about it in a serious way, as
>if your life depends on it. Go online and look at logos. Go to library
>and read about logo designs books & collections. Go outdoors and
>observe logos. Think about it just for 1 hour of your whole life's
>time. (as opposed to, say, graphics professionals who spend years
>thinking about it, or even a college student who did happen to have
>taken a course related to logo design or advertisement or philosophies
>of imageries) Then, if you find what i said about the lojban logo
>unreasonable or outrageous, then i'll accept it.
>)
>
>some quick tips for good logos:
>
>* good logo is not something generic, even if it is beautifully
>rendered.
> Example of logos with this problem:
>
> old gnu hurd logo of just a generic sphere
> ( http://www.gnu.org/graphics/hurd-logo-sm.jpg )
>
> Fresco Window system of triangles ( http://fresco.org/ )
>
> cvs's fish. ( http://cvshome.org/
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/gki/cvssmaller.gif)
>
> bash of simplistic font (
>http://cnswww.cns.cwru.edu/~chet/bash/bashtop.html )
>
> python of simplistic font ( http://python.org/ )
>
>Better logos should be reminiscent to what it represents. Good
>example's are SGI's computer rendered tube cube illusion, Sun Micro's
>8Us that spells out Sun in 4 directions, Apple's bitten apple, Be
>media company's eye-ear logo, NeXT's geometrical cube, X-Window's
>sharp X, Redhat's redhat, GNU's gnu head, BSD's deamon tyke, Microsoft
>Windows's window, Perl's ugly camel, nVidia's eye, GNU Hurd OS'
>recursive arrows, Shell's seashell, McDonnald's M, Taco Bell's bell,
>Honda's H, Yamaha's tuning forks ...
>
>Good logo should be distinct, an impression lock, even if it isn't
>reminiscent of what it represents. For example, AT&T's death star
>(globe connotation), Apache feather (Native American, panache),
>Linux's penguine tux (glut & sated), General Electric's curlicue font.
>Even
>font alone can do very good if in distinctive style: IBM stripped
>blue, Coke drink's cursives, ATI's high-tech font, ebay and google's
>and yahoo's colorful fonts.
>
>Note that the logo of popular corporations are not necessaily good.
>Examples
>are: SONY, JVC, TOSHIBA, RCA, Microsoft. These are just unremarkable.
>
>Good logo should not be overly complex. It shouldn't be photographic
>or complex drawings, in general.
>
>many of the above mentioned logos are collected here:
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/freebooks.html
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/usoft.html
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/lambda_logo.html
>
>-----------
>
>about the loban logo:
>Some logo don't have an idea behind it. Those do are usually better.
>The idea behind the lojban logo is great, but the quality, its artistic
>merits, is worse than nothing.
>
>There are really a lot of ways to arrive at a quality lojban logo. The
>gist of the problem really isn't about resources. It's about people â??
>moron heads â?? in the aura of OpenSource milieu, because their grand
>vision who cannot see in the first place a shit thing is installed, and
>all the while wallow in the moronitude of â??contributionâ??, â??freeâ??,
>â??cooperationâ??, â??goodnessâ??, and with a fucking attitude and aggression
>about it too.
>
>PS This message is not directed at any individual, and i have not one
>person in the lojban community in which i hold grudge.
>
> Xah
> xah@xahlee.org
>â?? http://xahlee.org/
>
>
>On Aug 13, 2005, at 6:48 AM, John E Clifford wrote:
>
>--- xah lee <xah@xahlee.org> wrote:
>
>> i just want to voice this again:
>>
>> the lojban logo is really truly hideous.
>>
>> it makes lojban like a fucking joke by the
>> OpenSource know-nothing
>> star-trekking tech-geeking morons.
>>
>> I find lojban a significant scientific pursuit.
>> But its logo, and now
>> with the joe-blog look of the official website,
>> really makes me ashamed
>> to associated with it.
>>
>> If the lojban org cannot have a professional
>> logo, please at least
>> don't use a juvenile one. It is better to have
>> no logo than that.
>>
>> Xah
>> xah@xahlee.org
>
>Gee, I kinda like it. What specifically is wrong
>with it and what would you recommend to improve
>it (aside from doing without a logo altogether)?
>It was the result of a contest (for which there
>were not a lot of entires, admittedly) which it
>won handily, so it seems to represent the best
>thought and wishes of the membership at a certain
>not to far past time. But it is now, so mayhap
>we need a new look for a new century (or some
>such sloganny line) -- though I confess that I
>see other things as being more pressing. (Would a
>detailed expalanaton of the logo's meaning help
>make it more appealing?)
>
>
>
> â??
>
>
>
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>with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
>you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
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