Re: [lojban] Re: A ranking system for Lojban speaking proficiency?

[John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net>]

1) The "win, lose, draw" talk is inappropriate:
anyone who can carry on a conversation -- however
halting -- in Lojban is a winner in the Lojban
view of things.

2) Are these listings to be posted? Of course,
they are; why else have them except for some
secret cabal with nefarious purposes?  But what
will be the result? Will high rankers be
bombarded with conversations from those trying to
improve? will low rankers be shunned?, will
aproximate equals seek one another out or avoid
one another?  Will high rankers come to have --
even informally -- more clout in the business of
the group (this is already the case, with not
uniformly desirable results)?

The system obviously needs some controls if it is
going to be used for anything.  For example,
someone who always claims to better than his
interlocutor, but is usually ranked less
proficient by that interlocutor, may be suspected
of trying to fix his ranking (but why, if nothing
hangs on this?) and so can be ignored at least
until his pattern changes.  

3) Is proficiency transitive?  There are reasons
to think not -- some people just play off some
better than off others.  So, unless there is
eventually a round robin, the relative levels
need not be accurate and cannot be converted into
absolutes of any sort. (And, of course, if the
round robin takes place over an extended period,
the earlier entries are probably not valid by the
end.)

4) Can someone who is not proficient be a
reasonably accurate judege of whether someone
else (let alone himself) is proficient?  Often
things like fast response time or flashy
vocabulary may cover up deepseated error patterns
to the beginner -- or even intermediate.  The
basic skills test is probably a good filter for
who should even be entered into  ranking.  It
only makes sense to call someone proficient if
they actually have the skills involved.

5)  It is a fun game to play, provided no one
ever takes it seriously but, onve it exists, the
temptation will be to take it seriously and then
it turns out not to be up to supporting many of
the potential loads if might ber asked to bear.