[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: [lojban] cultural rafsi fu'ivla
At 04:25 PM 03/02/2000 +0000, marios cmavirn wrote:
.i la lojbab cusku di'e:
>I am not sure what you would define as the "Caribbean" culture.
This is not denying that there is one, merely saying that I am not sure
what it is. In part because it is not clear what the boundaries are. The
Bahamas are not in the Caribbean Sea; are they part of the Caribbean
culture? The Florida keys are; are they part of the Caribbean
culture? (You answer this below in terms of the people of the culture
itself, but we did not choose gismu on that basis). With other culture
gismu we have some societal conventions that draw clear if arbitrary lines
(but even then I recognize that the arbitrariness is a potential problem).
I would really suggest to leave
the question of wether a culture can identify as such up to the culture in
question, and use this standard where these specific cultural fu'ivla are
concerned.
That seems reasonable, especially for fu'ivla.
I looked up ropno, bemro and xazdo in the gismu list which says:
"x1 reflects European culture/nationality/geography/Indo-European languages
in aspect x2" . Bemro: "x1 reflects North American culture/ nationality/
geography in aspect x2". Even xazdo: x1 reflects Asiatic
culture/nationality/geography in aspect x2. Can you imagine that the same
way you look at us from up there, from down here I might question the
existence of a common culture between US, Canadians and Mexicans. So let's
not go there.
I agree, but I don't claim that there is a common culture to any of the
above. The "cultural gismu" are not limited to culture, as is evident in
the definition. The choice of which divisions of the world got gismu was
arbitrary, based on geographical divisions and key languages and
population, and was flawed at that.
Geographically there is an ambiguity as the Antillean
archipelago forms one arch from Cuba in the northwest through Trinidad in
the south-east to Aruba in the southwest, but some islands are
geographically part of south-america while others are considered part of
north-america. The Bahamas are outside of the Caribbean arch, but consider
themselves Caribbean. Same goes for the coastal countries of Belize and the
Guyanas and for the Caribbean coasts of Venezuela, Colombia and Central
America. in most Caribbean countries a European country may be the official
language, but the mother tongue of most people is a creole. At least 16
independent countries label themselves foremost as Caribbean and not as
north-american, or hispanic.
Shows something about education, since here in the US, they call the
islands the "West Indies", consider all of them part of North America, and
would not consider any of the coastal countries any more Caribbean than any
other. Indeed I am not sure why Belize and Guyana fit other than by
exclusion from "Hispanic-America", whereas the other Central American
states and the Yucatan do not.
In the Caribbean we are accustomed to people from outside telling us what
we are and should be. I don't worry about that. I just think that as lojban
community we should strive maybe not that much for cultural neutrality, as
that's a hard one, but more for pluriformity, as more southerners like me
start joining up.
Pluriformity is welcomed.
lojbab
----
lojbab lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org (newly updated!)