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Re: djuno: the key issue (was: Re: Fwd: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/...



In a message dated 3/28/2001 6:27:17 AM Central Standard Time,
arosta@uclan.ac.uk writes:


<It seems to me that the discussion has converged on just two rival
definitions that differ on one point: for "x1 djuno x2 x3 x4" to be true,
does x2 have to be entailed by x4 (Position I), or is it sufficient for x1
to believe (possibly erroneously) that x1 is entailed by x4 (Position II)?

Lojbab says (II), and (II) is what I would advocate too. But I think (I)
is closer to established usage and also to the views of the Three
Magi (pc, John & Jorge).>

Caspar here.  As I said yesterday in defining {jinvi} and {djuno}, the
evidence has to be true in the epistemology and the knower has to believe it
is evidence for the conclusion (weaker than entailment, I think) but
crucially, the known must be true in the epistemology.  Knowledge says there
are reasons, but does not put them foreward.  It does put foreward a truth
claim, however.  Depending on how an epistemology is defined, you could hold
that the known is entaiiled by the epistemology just because it is true in
that epistemology, or you could say that its truth in that epistemology is
merely a factual matter, bound in by the strength of evidence.  That is not
decided in my definitions (and the difference might involve some of residual
problems of "know," those cases of jsutified true belief that still aren't
knowledge.)