| In a message dated 7/14/2001 10:58:05 AM Central Daylight Time,
a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com writes: Are you by any chance a fan of avantgarde postmodern British poetry (e.g. The only British poet I can think of having read is S.J. Forrest, who is preVatican, not post-modern. <I dispute that in English the topmost, 'performative'/attitudinal predicate can ever be expressed lexically (by a verb with clausal complement). This is one reason why I don't baulk at Lojban expressing propositional attitudes by UI, which are outside the logical apparatus.> Does that mean we have emotions we express but that we cannot name? Possible but requiring considerable argument. I suppose you mean rather the Express(1, p) part, which is rather unlikely on the face of it -- as the oddity of the "full surface form" suggests,though the report of the event does make sense, so it is the performative, speech-act usage that is suspect. Maybe Express and the like don't have first-person, peformative, forms (a different set of transformations of the underlying bit -- if you do believe in it). Or you may think the whole theory is a crock. Both the last two are quite respectable views and I am inclined to be hospitable to them at least. <Not really, because you don't know in advance what the corresponding predicate is. Even if gleki might be factive, it doesn't necessarily follow that ui would be too, because it is not a given that gleki = ui.> I think that is a real problem, though in this case we are more or less given that the emotion expressed by {ui} is described by {gleki}. Still, that is a hypothesis that could be defeated by showing that {ui} is not factive but {gleki} is factive, or conversely. So we need some independent way of lining these critters up (unless you really meant that they can't be). <I'd like to see an array of pertinent examples that demand changing UI into selbri> I sure don't want to change UI into selbri in any sense of that _expression_. They serve two different functions fundamentally, even if in some languages -- and maybe even in Lojban sometimes (hopefully well-marked) -- the selbri can do some of the work of a UI. Given all the "makes this a that"s there are in Lojban, I would be surprised if there is not a "makes following selbri and attitudinal" somewhere (though I did not find it). The exercise here was to find some place for people who did want to derive UI pragmatics (or whatever it is) from that for brivla. |