[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Fwd: [lojban] On a number of parts of threads and single threads disguised as...



In a message dated 7/27/2001 10:22:16 AM Central Daylight Time, 
lojbab@lojban.org writes:



> Cowan has expressed his opinion that the appropriate 
> way to fill in the gaps of the refgrammar is a chrestomathy of approved 
> 



A great idea! Alas, it requires 1) usage and 2) approval. The list is about 
both of these -- not just either one -- and they feed off each other. xorxes 
affects usage not merely because he writes stuff but also because, when 
called on something that looks too weird, he is able (usually) to give a 
reasoned defense of it. And, indeed,
he usually has come to his usage from such considerations, rather than by 
accident or ignorance. Of course, perhaps he -- and certainly some others -- 
have also been known to continue in a usage -- and perhaps influence other 
people's usage -- even after that usage has been disapproved, debated down 
and -- we like to think for the few months the delusion lasts -- buried. If 
we are going to ahve a chresthomathy, it should be maintained for many years 
just on the internet, open to constant revision -- mainly expansion, as good 
usage arises for new cases, but also correction, as old usage is shown flawed 
and improved on. 
Also, a pure chresthomathy will not do. Each example needs a note about what 
problem it solves and what its general rule is. Otherwise, we will have the 
kind of improper generalization that has plagued several topics in 
Loglan/Lojban -- the conversion rules being the most famous, I suppose.

--part1_e.1038f78e.2892eca3_alt_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 7/27/2001 10:22:16 AM Central Daylight Time, 
<BR>lojbab@lojban.org writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Cowan has expressed his opinion that the appropriate 
<BR>way to fill in the gaps of the refgrammar is a chrestomathy of approved 
<BR>usages; we will no doubt be discussing this at LogFest</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>A great idea! &nbsp;Alas, it requires 1) usage and 2) approval. &nbsp;The list is about 
<BR>both of these -- not just either one -- and they feed off each other. &nbsp;xorxes 
<BR>affects usage not merely because he writes stuff but also because, when 
<BR>called on something that looks too weird, he &nbsp;is able (usually) to give a 
<BR>reasoned defense of it. &nbsp;And, indeed,
<BR> he usually has come to his usage from such considerations, rather than by 
<BR>accident or ignorance. &nbsp;Of course, perhaps he -- and certainly some others -- 
<BR>have also been known to continue in a usage -- and perhaps influence other 
<BR>people's usage -- even after that usage has been disapproved, debated down 
<BR>and -- we like to think for the few months the delusion lasts -- buried. &nbsp;If 
<BR>we are going to ahve a chresthomathy, it should be maintained for many years 
<BR>just on the internet, open to constant revision -- mainly expansion, as good 
<BR>usage arises for new cases, but also correction, as old usage is shown flawed 
<BR>and improved on. 
<BR>Also, a pure chresthomathy will not do. &nbsp;Each example needs a note about what 
<BR>problem it solves and what its general rule is. &nbsp;Otherwise, we will have the 
<BR>kind of improper generalization that has plagued several topics in 
<BR>Loglan/Lojban -- the conversion rules being the most famous, I suppose.</FONT></HTML>

--part1_e.1038f78e.2892eca3_alt_boundary--
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:37 PM 07/27/2001 +0100, And Rosta wrote:
>The reason why Lojban List remains a single list (not counting Jbosnu),
>rather than lojban list + lojban-tech, is that Lojbab is opposed to
>splitting the list. His preferences appear to be (1) technical discussion
>doesn't happen, (2) it happens on Lojban list, (3) it happens on Lojban-tech
>list. (1) is unreasonable, so it is down to Lojbab that we have (2) rather
>than (3).

Lojbab is not opposed to technical discussion. I wish it were minimized, 
because it detracts from people actually using the language (since my last 
posting on this topic, Cowan has expressed his opinion that the appropriate 
way to fill in the gaps of the refgrammar is a chrestomathy of approved 
usages; we will no doubt be discussing this at LogFest). There is at times 
a lot of energy thrown into technical discussion that goes nowhere, whereas 
Jorge has certainly found that he has more effect on language usage by 
using the language to the point that people follow his usage patterns, than 
he will ever have in technical discussion.

I oppose a tech list primarily because I do not want the loss of critical 
mass on the main list, especially if it means that all of the experienced 
people working the technical list no longer pay attention to the regular 
list. I would welcome it if there was a foolproof way of getting a mailing 
list to sort itself into technical and beginner posts and other categories 
so that people could filter what they don't want easily, but that is not 
likely at least while we are using a commercial mail host. (If we had our 
own mailing list host, we could in theory use software at the host to 
standardize subject lines to include filterable codes.)

lojbab
--
lojbab lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org



To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 



--- End Message ---