Re: du'u in lieu of ka (was: Re: [lojban] Toward a {ce'u} record

[Invent Yourself <xod@sixgirls.org>]

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, And Rosta wrote:

> pc:
> #cowan@mercury.ccil.org writes:
> #
> #> Or 3) Not so -- some {ce'u} may be implicit, and it is up to the
> #> intelligence of the hearer/reader to figure out where they go.
> #
> #Yes, that is a position too and, indeed, probably what we have been
> #mainly working with lo these many years. But it is hideously soft-line and
> #illogical, since it makes every {ka} phrase vague (or ambiguous,
> #depending on how hard-line you are). The problem is that glorking is
> #unreliable at best: witness pc and cowan on {le ka prami}. Of course,
> #people often are vague about just what they mean, but rarely, I think,
> #ambiguous in just this way.
>
> I agree, but there is a remedy within the baseline, so long as zo'e
> cannot be read as a ce'u (and if it can, then existing usage of
> du'u is unspeakably ambiguous): And The Cowan has averred
> that construing zo'e as ce'u is as heinous as construing it as
> noda.
>
> Since {du'u} doesn't guarantee the presence of a covert or overt
> ce'u, using {du'u ... ce'u} instead of {ka ... (ce'u)} forces all ce'u
> to be overt. Thus those of us who are rightly worried about the
> horrible vagueness/ambiguity of allowing covert ce'u within
> ka bridi can simply not use ka and use du'u instead.



All around, this is the simplest and most elegant solution: ditch ka, use
du'u and some number of ce'u. But what about the kam- rafsi? It's too
useful to abandon.





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