| In a message dated 8/30/2001 6:20:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: ni1: li piso'i ni la djan clani I guess my problem with the second version is that it is set up as an indirect question wiht {kau} but can't be one, since it can't be a question at all: properties aren't questions. OHo. I think I begin to see what has happened as a result of the {du'u}-{ka} amalgamation. If {du'u...kau} is a set of propositions, then {ka... kau} is a set of properties, differing by what goes in the {kau} place. Put a {ce'u} in and you get a function that gives different sets for different values of {ce'u} OK so far. But now the {frica} part: in one sense, any two people will differ in this set, because they have a different matrix and thus different members in the set: one has {la djan clano} and the other {la meris clano} at he beginning of the paradigm cases, for example. But in the crucial factor, the number that goes in for {makau}, they will have (inter alia) all the same numbers. Now, the *right* numbers are different, but how do we sort them out from the rest? I think that may be the difference between {ni} and {sela'u makau} (but it needs more work). Of course, it would be {lo ni} since we may not know what the numbers are (maybe {lo ka} too? No, that is the unique function to questions). We could insist that {kau} always got only the right answers, but that makes nonsense of most other cases. But all that aside, I now am in the opposite position of not seeing the difference between the two again. The {frica} introduces the the additional factor of the bound {ka} (not really, but we are only interested in the two values); can we make a similar distinction in simpler cases and get the right results? {le ni la djan clano cu barda} makes sense, does {le ka la djan clano sela'u makau cu barda}? I don't think so, but it should if the {frica} case works Back to an earlier problem: You say quite confidently, having seen that the Lojban works out badly or some other how, that "He believes what he hears" is just a relative clause, not an indirect question. How do you tell? Consider "He knows what he likes," where the ambiguity hinges on "know" -- which is this one? or, wihtout ambiguity in the verb, "He sees what he likes." I am still worried that this question/relative ambiguity underlies a problem here,though it may not be the 1-2 contrast you are working on. |