In a message dated 10/12/2001 8:29:45 PM Central Daylight Time, a.rosta@ntlworld.com writes:
1. "It is certain that the scope ends at the next {ni’o} or {da’o}; it Yes, and I like it. It is not yet doctrine, however. <2. "On the other hand, occurrences of a bound variable that are clearly in the scope of a quantifier may be rebound by another explicit quantifier, keeping more or less the same reference: {ci da zo’u da nanmu gi’e nenri klama le barja ije re da zutse} “Three men come into a bar and two of them sit,” where the second quantifier on {da} works within the limits of the groups selected by the first. A quantifier in Lojban cannot be recycled within the scope of a quantifieron that same variable." I believe the ban on recycling -- which is better-formulated here than I saw it formulated in list discussion -- was a recent proposal rather than part of established canon. In discussion, a range of views were put forward: (i) Requantification recycles the variable (as if it were {da da'o}) asif it were being used for the first time. (ii) Requantification recycles the variable but earlier restrictions on the variable are not cancelled, so {ci da poi gerku zo'u ge da cliva gi re da bacru} means "two dogs barked" rather than "two of the dogs barked", and {ci da poi gerku zo'u ge da cliva gi re da poi xekri cu bacru} means "two black dogs", and not just "two black things". I suppose the restriction would stay in force until the next {da da'o} or {da'o da'o}. (iii) Requantification is over the individuals picked out by the initial quantification (as per your [pc's] text). I think the choice among these (and other possible alternatives) has yet to be agreed on.> Again, I have a lot of sympathy with some of these proposals -- especially the simple recycling one (as in Logic), but the official doctrine is asI describe it, 16.14 (410). <3. "The bridi negation {na} is always logically to the left of eventhe quantifiers in the prenex, so again it is useful to check whether you have negated the right form when a negation occurs." Perhaps this is said in the book, but at least in the Lojban internalized by me, prenex has scope over the rest of the bridi.> 16.9 (401) ff and especially 16.11 (405) x11.1-4 |