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Re: [lojban] tautologies



In a message dated 2/9/2002 11:09:53 AM Central Standard Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes:


I don't remember what you thought of:

   mi ta te vecnu ije makau ta jdima
   I buy it, whatever be its price.


I hated it, for all the reasons that I dislike this one -- a free floating indirect question doesn't make any sense at all and doesn't have a truth value, so can't be atached truth functionally.

<Which naturally leads to:

   mi ta te vecnu ije xukau ta kargu
   I buy it, whetherever it be expensive.

You might want to add some kind of causality connector instead
of a simple {ije}, but the second sentence is still a tautology.>

No -- as I said then -- the second sentence is which is is true of P and ~P, neitehr of which is typically a tautology -- that is it is the answer to the question (if it has any truth value at all).

<In English you can say tautological things like "it costs whatever
it costs", which one could lojbanize as "ta se jdima makau", but
it is hard to find a tautology operator to do a complete
proposition>

A tautology is a single sentence which is true regardless.  {ta se jdima makau} , if meaningful at all, is always true but is a different sentence on different occasions, so not a tautology.  "It costs whatever it costs" is just {ta se jdima lo jdima be ta}, which is a tautology.  I still suspect a large number of indirect questions, so called, are relatives or, as here, descriptions.  As I said, indirect questions are questions in indirect discourse and make little sense elsewhere -- English to the contrary notwithstanding  (in a word, this pursuit looks to be bloated malglicotude).