[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [lojban] Re: [jboske] Quantifiers, Existential Import, and all that stuff



In a message dated 3/9/2002 10:48:39 AM Central Standard Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes:


>What about {su'o broda cu zasti}?  Presumably false, but also I-, so it
>ought
>to be true.

It is false, and it is I+ in my system, as well as in yours.


So I see, but it has the no importing set at its base -- what I mean bybeing unable to decipher the principles involved here.

<Well, And seems to have understood me, so I can at least consider
that my failure to explain it to you may not be entirely my fault.>

Well, having the same delusions about {ro} probably helps working through this.

<>The set can be empty, but then the reference to its members has to be
>treated in whatever way is appropriate for expressions that don't have a
>referent.  I'm not sure what the Lojban rule is about that, if there is
>one.

If you're not sure that there is a Lojban rule, why is the one
I'm proposing against Lojban?>

General principle: a rule based on a false assumption is very likely going to turn out to be the wrong rule.  It turns out that there are several contextually dependent rules about meaningless expressions, but I have to admit that none of them is very clear -- usage not having decided nor authority.

<If we don't even have Lojban rules, the ones I'm proposing are
not against Lojban rules. An of course if you would show that
my proposal gives rise to inaccuracy or incoherence I would have
to shut up about it, but you haven't.>

Same principle.  Your rules may not be incoherent in themselves but they are incompatible with Lojban principles.  Whether they are a better set of rules will have to wait for the Lojban set to appear.  I've sent around a first shot for comment, and then we can see what develops.

<I hardly think the existential import of {ro} warrants a new
language. Would anyone ever notice that they are two different
languages?>

I think they they might at a number of crucial points -- exactly when existential plays a role  -- issues like whether or not there are workable peace proposals, for example, regardless of whether all of them are flawed.

<I'm moving this back to jboske then. The problem is that
reply-to in jboske is not sent to the list, so I probably
end up bringing it back to lojban by mistake.>

It's already happened, so I think that -- on the off chance anybody else paid any attention -- we should continue of Lojban.