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Re: [lojban] Re: ralju bangu be le gligu'e
On 5/5/06, John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--- Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
> They seem
> independent
> to me. In a tanru like {broda be ko'a brode},
> the tanru formation
> operation (2) clearly uses a selbri that
> already incorporated an
> argument as the modifier selbri, so in that
> case (2) uses (1)
> in its construction.
Well, that assumes that this has the structure
/x(Fx * Ga) rather than /x/y(Fx * Gy)a and I
don't see that as obviously the case.
It has neither of those structures. {broda be ko'a brode}
is a selbri with the same number of arguments as {brode}
itself, which neither of your options provides.
Since {broda co brode} is just the same as {brode
broda}
Sort of the same. They have different argument structure.
and you think that is clear and OK,
When did I say that {brode broda} is clear and OK?
how
can the former be a mismatch (are you attributing
some logical significance to linear order all
by itself)?
{broda co brode} behaves in form like an ordinary selbri, but its
argument structure is very different from that of ordinary selbri.
The sumti that appear in front of it fill the argument slots of {broda}
whereas the sumti that appear after it fill the argument slots of
{brode}, starting with the second. This is a mismatch with respect
to the ordinary interpretation of {term term term selbri term term term}
in which the position of the selbri (once you get past the first term) is
irrelevant.
Actually, since your reading of
{ranju bangu} is more naturally {bangu ralju},
Huh?
the instant case is really {ralju co bangu be le
gligu'e}, but I think the uncertaintly remains.
{lo ralju be lo bangu be lo gliselgu'e} would make the intended
meaning more clear, but that's a different issue.
The meaning of {broda brode be ko'a} is by definition
{broda (brode be ko'a)}, with no mismatches between form
and meaning. The selbri {broda} modifies the selbri {brode
be ko'a} resulting in a new selbri with the same argument
slots as the tertau, {brode be ko'a}. That's what the grammatical
form says and that's what the meaning matches.
mu'o mi'e xorxes