On 10/31/06, Alex Martini <alexjm@umich.edu> wrote:
u'u Yes, the dotted/spaceless style has a reason for accents. If you can actually read and use it, I suppose it is technically correct.
ki'u I was describing the variants that people actually *use*, either in the corpus (the collection of published Lojban text) or in this mailing list. To date, I've never seen anyone use this style, except for special cases like {lonu} where they drop a non-stopping space between two cmavo.
I use it.
As for bandwidth/parsing advantages to the undotted style, I don't really see them. The first step (an early step? not sure of specifics) of parsing Lojban into structure *is* to find the word boundaries. So if you use undotted, the parser just puts the spaces back in anyhow. Check out either jbofi'e or the official DOS parser.
I've actually made my own parser.
I suppose undotted gives a shorter text, but much less legible, and since raw text is so bandwidth-small to begin with, it's hardly worth the savings. But that's really another issue entirely, the transparency of computer file formats. Which I'd gladly go into, but I don't think we need to subject the whole mailing list to.
and I'm planning to create a new development framework promoting the use of lOjban. Currently working on:
lOjban programming language, planning on having more or less the same lOjban as we have now, just with reform changes, refer to "reform" mailing thread.
will have in future:
fully distributed network (like freenet) to distribute the "functions" though they will be more like bridi which are explained by lOjban sambau. .i.e. fanva da la lOjban la Anglic fu ma, will be a bridi that answers that question for any da. though you can be more or less specific, creating a more, or less general function.
Operating System: the development model will probably be so good and effective that we will be able to produce at a far greater rate than any other language, as well taking into account the large amount of AI we will have built in to the interperter, (simple with the development model to add specific bridi, into paragraphs that describe the function of other bridi) with all our users contributing to the knowledge base.
General AI: what else would you call it? When this system talks back to us in the same language we talk to it. and can tell us things formated in the way we like them. perhaps colaborating large amount of sources, and giving us "notes". Anyways, a long way off, but we'll get there.
Have to focus on the now, Lojban programming language, based on Prolog. I'll make a post tommorrow,
mu'omi'e aleks
On Oct 31, 2006, at 3:51 AM, Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin wrote:
Though if you think about it, dotted-and-spaceless style is the speech version of lOjban. The version computers will be using the communicate to each other over the internet - no point in wasting extra bandwidth on spaces, when it requires less parsing without them, and gives you the same result.
the lOjban computers will be using, la'a is going to be quite a bit different from the current version.
On 10/31/06, Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin <
andrii.z@gmail.com> wrote:
There is a third style of lojban, dotted-and-spaceless style
mi'elOkadin..imiprAmiroda.ui.u'i.iu
I guess I could just write like that, but it's slightly more difficult to understand than it is with spaces,
If you were to write by hand, perhaps you would see the difference, on the contrary, your writing might be as nice as a font -- mine is not.
computer parsing of text is much easier when it's standardized, and if you aren't using spaces, as they are optional, it becomes very unclear what is going on
miklamalaparis.fulekarce.imicitkalogerkuzo'o
becomes very difficult to understand.
personally I really don't care how you do your lOjban, if you don't want to capitalize the penultimate syllable of your brIvla, by all means, if you at some future point do decide to however, I fully support you. If for no other reason than I will find it more legible.
On 10/30/06, Alex Joseph Martini <
alexjm@umich.edu> wrote: doi lokadin
Perhaps it is easier to read for you, but it makes it very difficult to
read for me. There are, as I know, two major styles of writing normal
Lojban -- dotted and non-dotted. Dotted is like CLL uses, every
mandatory pause is dotted. Some folks (like xorxes) prefer to not write
in the dots since they are not needed when we write with spaces; which
we all do anyhow.
Neither of these established styles allow capitals outside of cmene. For
comparison, think of accenting every polysyllabic word in English. Yes it
might serve a useful purpose, but it's not the accepted way to write
English. Lojban doesn't have any need for the accents because it's
always accented in the same place.
Boiling it down, I don't like the accents on every word because it's not
needed, it's distracting, and none of the other text in the corpus or
baseline does it.
pei?
mu'omi'e aleks
to la lokadin pu ciska de'i li 2006 pi'e 10 pi'e 30 toi
> mi rovu'upAmoi slAka bAsna .i ki'u la'edi'u sAmpu se jImpe mi
>
> There are actually three levels of stress --- primary, secondary, and
> weak.
>> [ li'o ]
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ta'o(by the way) We With You Network at:
http://lokiworld.org .i(and)
more on Lojban: http://lojban.org
mu'oimi'e lOkadin (Over, my name is lOkadin)