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Re: [lojban] Mathy person interested in concept, unsure where to begin.

Well, exactly when which rules apply is probably an important issue.  We know that pronoun rules are late and deprenexification is fairly early, but just what comes where is going to depend on best ways to set limits.  The current grammar is probably a target for the deeper layers, but, as it stands, it seems to have lost some essential pieces, so that it looks like the same sentence may come from more than one nonequivalent formula even though it has only one parse.  The easiest cases seem to come from deprenexification, where scope is not specified (can't find my list at the moment).

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 24, 2014, at 18:27, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:



On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:16 PM, 'John E. Clifford' via lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com> wrote:
As the mystics say, the way up is the way down. We won't get the way From Lojban to logic right if we haven't worked out the other direction, because only then can we be sure that Lojban has incorporated all the clues needed.

For me there's just no way one can get the FOPL to Lojban wrong, if one knows the very simple and trivial rules that apply.
 
 In the examples here, some of the shifts are very secondary, but deprenexification is surely essential

Deprenexification is needed for getting concise/ergonomic forms, but not to get the logic right in the first place.
 
(and dangerous, as you say, though this case is Ok apparently) and so is this sort of collapse.  The Principia to Polish shift and the logical moves are just dressing.

The move is fine in this simple case. Getting the rule precisely right for the general case needs some consideration of several issues, but it's still one of the easy ones. But this is already part of Lojban->Lojban moves, not part of the FOPL->Lojban step,  

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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