Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

Hmm, lessee.  Classes are classes, not dogs, even if they are classes of dogs.  
Even distributive predication can't save this one, since it still stops with 
classes.
Elephants *are* bigger than all other land animals, nowadays any how.  Probably 
could use a "general" modality to prevent any attempt at distributive readings.
Humans do have two legs -- generally again, although, in this case, and with 
selected humans, I suppose a distributive reading is possible.
And, given the laxity of Lojban, I can't think of any reason why cycling and 
cinema viewing aren't things (though I can't think of nor find the Lojban word 
for it).


----- Original Message ----
From: Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, September 20, 2011 7:16:15 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural 
variable

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
>
> The problems with counting and so on which arise when we mix kinds and
> instances could be rectified by simply declaring that {da} and
> {[quantifier] [selbri]} never get kinds - i.e. the corresponding
> variables are over 'mundane' singular objects (AT minus K, in
> Chierchia's notation).

What would you then say of these:

    ro klesi be lo gerku cu gerku

    lo xanto cu bramau ro drata ke tumla danlu

    lo remna cu se tuple re da

> I suggested something like this before, and I think you complained that
> we shouldn't be separating out kinds from mundanes... but since
> Chierchia does it, I feel licensed to push again for an explanation of
> what would go so wrong if we did separate them out.

I see no major problem in separating the metalinguistic construct
"kind", as defined for example by Chierchia, for contexts in which
they appear together with their manifestations. My only problem would
be if you forbid saying things like (quote) "My two favourite things
are to cycle and to go to the cinema alone", i.e. if you don't allow
"to cycle" and "to go to the cinema alone" to count as things in any
context. Whether you want to call them kinds or something else
metalinguistically, it doesn't much matter.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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