mass again

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@access.digex.net>]

>From: Cyril Slobin <slobin@FEAST.FE.MSK.RU>
>Subject:      mass again
>
>> > For things like "my books weigh several
>> > tons" it might be better to say {le girzu be le cukta be mi}. Not
>> > that {lei/loi} is necessarily inappropriate (though they may be) but
>> > rather that other locutions might better serve your purpose.
>>
>> Why? I don't see what they could be used for, if not precisely
>> for that.
>
>Weither "(the mass of) human being weigh near 80 kg" or "... near
>400,000,000 tons"?  IMHO first version is closer to Reference Grammar
>examples.  Or not?

lo junta be loi remna cu ki'ogra li xa .a li vonono,ki'o,ki'o .a li tu'o
A weight of the mass of humanity is in kilograms "6" or "400,000,000" or
                                        "almost any number you choose".

because the default for "loi remna" is that it is the contextually
appropropriate non-0 portion of the mass (i.e. pisu'o), and there is no
context to constrain how much of the mass is being discussed.

lo junta be piro loi remna cu ki'ogra li so'a
A weight of all of the mass of humanity is in kilograms a
                                        (specific) very large number.

which would be calculable if one could put all of humanity on a scale at
one time (or sum the values of the weights on 6 billion-odd mutually
calibrated scales all at one time).

It is plausible that in some cases, the phrase "mass of humanity" has an
implied quantifier of "all".  But then there is the metaphorical use:
"the mass of humanity is on the side of peace" which brings to mind a
balance with a large mass of people standing on one side of a scale, but
a small but non-0 portion of humanity in favor of some particular war
standing on the other side.  The "mass of humanity" in this image is
that of the plurality of humanity that happens to care about the
particular issue, and thus it weighs considerably less than the weight
of 6 billion humans, though likely far more than 80 kg).

Since the English has confusing polysemy in this example, I want to
clarify for all readers of this message that Lojban "mass" = "loi" has
nothing to do with mass "ni marji".  The latter is measureable in
kilograms and/or moles.  The former is difficult to measure, or even to
conceive of as measureable.

(Hmm.  "loi ni marji" ought to be worth a good multilingual pun, or even
"loi ni gunma" %^)  "ni gunma" itself is a challenging concept - is this
And's porridgity?)

lojbab