Re: TECH: AFTERTHOUGHT SCOPE

[ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>]

Jorge:
> > 1. SCOPE-SENSITIVITY
> > SCOPE-SENSITIVE terms comprise all sumti whose innermost descriptor
> > is (implicitly or explicitly) {lo}.
> > SCOPE-INSENSITIVE terms comprise all sumti whose innermost descriptor
> > is {le}.
> I'm not sure this is right. {ci le reno gerku} is just as scope-sensitive
> as {ci gerku}.

You're right. Scope-insensitives are actually terms that don't expand
to contain a {lo} (not counting) for {lo ro}.

> Forget about scope sensitivity, and we are left with:
>    * X and Y have coordinate scope
>    * X has scope over Y
>    * Y has scope over X

Okay. That simplifies things.

> I think that the coordinate case can be taken care of by adding
> a {ro lo} in front of the second sumti.

Using your (sensible) rules, that is. You are basically right,
but what if sumti3 has coordinate scope to preceding sumti2
and scope over preceding sumti1. For example:

   ci da poi nanmu xa de poi rozgu e vo di poi ninmu zohu
   da de di dunda

As I think you recognize, {ro lo} doesn't do the job here.
(I'm in favour of your {ro lo} proposal; I just don't think
it is sufficient on its own.)

> One of the subordinate cases is taken care of by the standard
> order, so the only case we are left with would be solved with
> something like pc's leaper. Wouldn't that be enough? This is
> only considering two sumti, but you didn't look into the
> more-than-two sumti case either.

I think my proposals cover more-than-two sumti cases. You need
to use more than one GOI/scope phrase.

A single leaper is not powerful enough, though it is better than
nothing.

> > 4 SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPLEMENTATION
> > 4.1 Scope relative to another sumti specified by an anaphor
> > Add 5 new cmavo in GOI, one cmavo for each of the 5 kinds of scope.
> > {SUMTI-X GOI SUMTI-Y} means "X is in the specified scope relationship
> > with Y".
> This would only work in the prenex, I suppose? Or do you mean to use
> VOhAs?

No, I didn't mean it to work only in the prenex. I meant SUMTI-Y to
be an anaphor to a previous sumti. A VOhA would do if it was
suitable. Otherwise, an alternative anaphor. (If no suitable anaphor
can be found, this is a problem of the anaphor system and not
of the afterthought scope system.)

> > Thus we need the following cmavo:
> >   * the outermost bridi - GOhA
> Isn't that {no'a}? I never know exactly which bridi this is
> supposed to be.

My cmaste says {noa} is "next outer bridi", not "outermost
bridi". If that's right I would support a redefinition of
{noa}, if my other proposals were adopted, because they
provide a way to say "next inner/outer bridi".

> >   * the localmost bridi - GOhA [this exists, as {nei}]
> >   * the bridi one level of embedding toward the middle of the
> >     bridi hierarchy away from ... - LAhE (1)
> >   * the first term in the prenex of - LAhE (2)
> >   * the last term in the prenex of - LAhE (2)
> > [i.e. in total, 3 new cmavo in LAhE, and 1 new cmavo in GOhA]
> > These can then be used with GOI as in 4.1.
> > The structure would be: SUMTI-1 GOI LAhE (2) (LAhE (1))* GOhA
> I really don't understand this part. LAhEs act on sumti. Is that
> what you want? Could you write an example?

Okay, first, I mistakenly thought GOhA has sumti status.
What I should have asked for was two new cmavo in KOhA:

   * the outermost bridi - KOhA
   * the localmost bridi - KOhA [this exists, as {nei}]

The current logic of {nei} and {noa} seems rather odd to me
- it seems to give an infinite regression of bridis that contain
copies of themselves. I've probably misunderstood {nei} and
{noa}, but if I haven't maybe they could be reassigned. [I guess
they are intended to be used with gadri, e.g. {lo te noa}, but
I don't see how that avoids infinite regression.]

So the structures I actually intended are:

  SUMTI-1 + GOI + SUMTI-2
  SUMTI-1 + GOI + LAhE-1 + (LAhE-2* +) KOhA

  [where * means "any number of"]

SUMTI-2 is an anaphor (pronominal reference) to a sumti.

GOI is:
    * X and Y have coordinate scope
    * X has scope over Y
    * Y has scope over X

LAhE-1 is:
    * the first term in the prenex of
    * the last term in the prenex of

LAhE-2 is:
    * the next bridi up/down from (heading away from innermost/
      outermost)

KOhA is as above.

A total now of 8 new or reassigned cmavo. (Plus the 3 default scope
toggles in UI.)

---
And