And Rosta wrote:
3 John believes le du'u da poi ke'a mamta mi cu mad (where John identifies the mad person as my mother)
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4 da poi ke'a mamta mi zo'u John believes le du'u da is mad (where it is not John that identifies the person believed to be mad as my mother). Thus Lojban can straightforwardly disambiguate for nonnames, while for names, the closest approximation would be: 5 John believes le du'u da poi ke'a me la ortcut cu spy 6 da poi ke'a me la ortcut zo'u John believes le du'u da spy
Indeed, that distinction does not work, because "la ortkut" means that which I (the speaker) call "Ortcutt". But we can convert it into a true predication thus: 5a la djan. -believes le du'u da poi selcme zo .ortkut. cu -spy i.e. John believes that what is named "Ortcutt" is a spy i.e. reference de dicto 5b da poi selcme zo .ortkut. zo'u la djan -believes le du'u da -spy i.e. there is something named "Ortcutt" that John believes to be a spy i.e. reference de re This presumes that John & the speaker don't disagree on the actual referent of "Ortcutt". -- There is / one art || John Cowan <jcowan@reutershealth.com> no more / no less || http://www.reutershealth.com to do / all things || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan with art- / lessness \\ -- Piet Hein