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Re: [lojban] Re: New Members, Board of Directors, other LogFest results
At 10:39 AM 7/23/02 -0600, Jay wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 03:03:32AM -0400, Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language
Group wrote:
> Attached are the current minutes. I'll have Robin put the prior
minutes up
> on the website, but I'm not sure we'll have that before LogFest.
> >-moving the various lists off yahoo (which may have been rendered moot by
> >Robin's mirroring, but this remains the only item that was actually
> >proposed in response to my call for agenda issues in May)
I must've missed that. I'd like to see the delegating of work discussed at
Logfest. (Not that I'll be there.) In particular, it seems worth noting
that projects like, say, the dictionary havn't really moved anywhere in
the last, what, 9 years? Certainly there are extenuating circumstances
as to why the person(s) currently working on it havn't produced anything,
like a lack of volunteers?
but it would be nice if the members would at least discuss the possibility
of farming out some of these projects (like the dictionary) to parties
who have demonstrated that they can get something accomplished on them.
I'll be honest that part of the reason I've had trouble being motivated to
work on the dictionary is that even if we get it done, we have no way to
publish it. Those of you who are more net-based than I can be motivated by
a net-based dictionary, but content-wise the initial dictionary will not be
all that far from what is in the current dictionary files (just editing and
formatting the exiting file, plus adding some of whatever we have time to
add, is what LogFest decided the first dictionary would be a LONNNG time
ago.) In that sense, the pretty version you made up IS "the dictionary".
BTW, in formatting the file that you did, YOU have "gotten something done
on them" more than anyone else has in the last couple of years; but since
we weren't at that stage yet, it was premature. The tasks that are really
needed: going through and writing definitions and place structures for new
words that have seen usage, and coming up with better definitions for
cmavo, we haven't actually had any volunteers that have "demonstrated that
they can get something accomplished on them".
But publishing the current dictionary files in print, is far more than we
can afford. If publishing Nick's books increases our revenue stream, that
could change in a year or two.
We could talk about publishing a set of materials on CD-ROM, but my
understanding is that CD-ROM dictionaries are already becoming passe
because on-line lookup is more convenient for those who need convenience,
and the download time for the current file is quite short.
> >-ideas to improve my order fulfillment record (including possibly seeking
> >an order fulfillment service, that would fill our orders, typically for
> >dollar or two per book)
How about going to Kinko's, and seeing how much they charge to print the
book?
Then, when the LLG gets an order, they guesstimate who (from a list of
volunteers) is closest to the person ordering the text, and email the
order on to them. They go to Kinko's, or use the printer at work, or
whatever they want to do, print the thing off, get it comb bound (either
done themselves with equipment from office depot, or have kinko's do it),
and then mail it off USPS book rate. They email back to the LLG the
actual cost of getting the book sent off, and LLG sends them those funds
via, say, paypal. Parties wishing to make smallish donations could then
quote the LLG for a smaller actual cost or not charge the LLG, etc.
And if they don't ACK the book request within a week or something, the
LLG can inquire as to the status, if it isn't satisfied by the response,
they can then tell the person to stop trying to fufill the order, wait
a day, and then send the order out to the next person.
Honestly that all sounds like more work than what I do now %^) The
bookkeeping would be horrible (and keeping track of the paper work is one
thing that slows me down), and comb-bound Kinko's would be far more
expensive than offset.
About 1/3 of our CLL orders come from Amazon, which insists on UPS
shipment, and 1/3 from overseas, which no longer has a book rate (indeed
the shipping rate for CLL, both domestic and foreign, will have to rise
because of the last postal increase).
As far as fufilling orders for the CLL, again, locate a few trustworthy
volunteers. Ship them, say, 10 copies of the book.
This is basically what I did with Colin Fine in England. He bought 10
copies, and many orders from the UK, I refer to him because he can get them
the book faster and probably cheaper than I will. But I have preferred to
handle it with him being a retail reseller, and LLG (that is lojbab)
doesn't do the order management for him.
If it were merely a matter of sending out the books, I would prepackage 40
books and send them when the orders come in. It's the paperwork, and the
specific rules needed to satisfy various booksellers that want a receipt
with order number, or multiple books in an order shipped in one box.
Open a Fedex account.
Isn't Fedex a good deal more expensive than even UPS, much less book rate
postage? We are getting $5 for shipping, and packing envelopes cost around
a buck. We lose money shipping amazon orders, since the UPS for them is
$6-8 for one book. We lose even more on airmail to Australia, which for
LLG was around $25 the last time I sent one.
> >-reflecting on the latter, ways to respond to snail mail correspondence
> >regarding Lojban that does not give an email, given that we do not have
> >anything current which is fit to send out (8 year old brochures seem
> >passe, especially since most people who hear of us did so via the
> >Internet, and thus have probably seen it). Right now, such
correspondence
> >gets filed for "someday" which means that people have not gotten response
> >for years. I think this needs to change, but I don't think I will
> >suddenly improve in this regard. Ideas welcome.
Get a list of local volunteers, who, again, will print off some stuff,
and mail it back to the person, including their own snail mail address,
and a note saying that they're willing to answer questions, or correspond
with the person in/about Lojban via snailmail. Then all the LLG needs to
do is email off the person's snailmail address, and a rough description
of what the person was requesting.
(And possibly authorize such volunteers to use LLG letterhead.)
That sounds reasonable to me. The question is whether there will be
volunteers who will dependably follow through. We've had a history of
people signing up for things and not actually doing them. Robin has
restored my faith that someone can follow through on a commitment, as has
Nick despite severe competition for his time (but Nick has always been good
at follow through). You've also done a lot, as has xod, though mostly
things you have chosen to do rather than "assignments" from the LLG "to do"
list. We need those independent activities, which help show that Lojban is
more than LLG.
--
lojbab lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org