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[lojban] Re: cmegadri valfendi preti

At 02:20 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote:

I am calling {doi} a cmegadri for this purpose, even though it's not a gadri.

According to BRKWORDS.TXT:

   1)  Names:
     a)  If the last letter of the piece is a consonant, we have a name.  A
     name must have a pause before it UNLESS it is immediately preceded by
     a /la/, /lai/, /la'i/ or /doi/ as a marker, and it cannot contain any
     of these markers unless the marker is immediately preceded by a conso-
     nant.  So, look backwards from the end of the piece for any of the
     allowed markers.  If we don't find one (e.g. /jonz/), then the whole
     piece has been resolved as a name.
     b)  If you do find such a marker, then check what immediately precedes
     it.  If there is nothing (e.g. /ladjAn/), or if a vowel precedes (e.g.
     /mivIskaladjAn./, break off the marker as a resolved piece (/la/), and
     what follows it is also a resolved piece, a name (/djAn/), leaving us
     with whatever preceded the marker, if anything, as still unresolved
     (/mivIska/).
     c)  If what precedes the marker is a consonant (e.g. /karoslAInas/)
     then ignore the marker and continue looking backwards.  This exception
     is allowed because /karos/ with no following pause cannot represent a
     separate word.

I am doing two versions of the cmegadri finding routine, the alahum version
and the standard version. The alahum version requires that the cmegadri be
followed by a consonant; the standard version doesn't.

Assuming that the standard version follows the instructions above, process
{doias}. Looking backward, find {doi}. It is preceded by nothing, so break it
off. The result is two pieces, {doi} and {as}. But that is wrong, since {doi
as} must have a pause before {as}. The alahum version would not split it
because {as} does not begin with a consonant.

On {doi'as}, however, the standard version would again break it into {doi}
and {'as}. {'as} would then be resolved as an error. The alahum version would
not break it, and {doi'as} would be resolved as a cmene.

So, for the standard version, should I look for a consonant or y'y after the
cmegadri?

Another question: why is the cmegadri broken off from what precedes it,
instead of just breaking between the cmene and the cmegadri and leaving the
cmegadri to be found later? What about {MUstelaVIson} and {muSTElaVIson}? How
should they be analyzed?
You are doing a variant parse. Breakwords presumed a valid lojban speech stream according to the rules set forth for names (namely that they not include la/lai/doi unless preceded by a consonant). Therefore, my answer is that you should mark {MUstelaVIson) as muste-la-vison, and (muSTElaVIson} as an error, and also doi'as and doias as errors. I realize you are trying to enlarge the area of acceptable names, but (aside from the fact that I support the existing definition as baseline) I think you are doing the LISTENERS a disservice if you wish to have such things as {muSTElaVIson} as a name. The name-maker can take his/her time and analyze what he/she has built. The listener, however, may well be hearing it for the first time (and therefore cannot just pull it out as a known glob). And, the speech stream gives very little time for the listener to analyze new things; if she/he takes too long, the rest of the sentence is gone. 

Think what the listener must go through:
"It ends in a consonant, so it has a name in there somewhere. Aha! There's the 'la'. Yup, there isn't a consonant in front of it. But, wait, the piece before it seems to have the accent in the wrong place. Is the whole thing a name? Is it an error on the speakers part? Or, after all this analysis have I just misremembered where the stress was?" 


--
mi'e noras                                             noras@lojban.org
Nora LeChevalier