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Re: [lojban] Re: the ethics of the HTML content meta tag

On Thursday, December 12, 2002, at 04:32 AM, Robert LeChevalier wrote:
Jay and Robin took the proper approach. When I turned the web page over to 
him as webmaster , I gave him broad editorial discretion to modify the
site.


I'm curious as to why Jay deleted the TLI Loglan references.


He has done so (and though he delegated it to Jay, he has taken the
responsibility). Robin's done the job to my extreme satisfaction, and for 
that matter, to the extreme satisfaction of the members, per the motion
passed at the last annual meeting:
* MOVED: To Commend Robin Powell for exceptional efforts in converting the LLG site, and for exceeding expectations on presentation to public - PASSED
I find it hard in the face of such commendation, to criticize either Jay or 
Robin for the work that they did.
I have already acknowledged that Robin is doing an excellent job as web master. I am appreciative of his efforts. But you appear to be conflating a policy issue with a management issue. The relationship between TLI and LLG should not have been delegated to the webmaster and his assistants.
We likewise have had no complaints from TLI, and in fact have had increased 
cooperation with them since the site was turned over to Robin, and now
Robin and Bob McIvor plan to work out a mutually agreeable set of
references to each language on their respective home pages.  I see no
problem, and every reason to be satisfied.
Judging by the posts to this list, some members of lojbanistan seem more than indifferent, they seem quite hostile towards logli and not just towards me. Such hostility seems as unwise as it is unkind. McIvor is just as much a member of "the Loglan project" as you are. Speaking for myself, as somebody who completely avoided TLI politics but was avidly interested in TLI Loglan for 25+ years, I was quite offended by what I perceived as an inhospitable attitude on this list toward recovering logli such as myself. This is a change from when I first started following the LLG Loglan listserv in 1995 or so. I believe others in my (perhaps only mythical) legion of 500 will be even more put off. I hope that your more accomodating stance towards TLI will have some influence on the newbies. 


I realize that perhaps
you (and others) don't really care about the history of Loglan


But I do care.


That is clear.


and believe that my concerns about this issue are foolish.
No, I believe that your words are counterproductive, in that, having gone beyond stating your concern, you are pushing the issue to the point where any of us that wish to respect the historical connection to Loglan will be perceived by others as being extremists, and the non-productive focus on the matter is unhelpful in encouraging greater cooperation between TLI and LLG.
Perhaps my protests will turn out to be counterproductive. I hope not. I certainly support fostering greater cooperation between TLI and LLG. I will take a "wait and see" attitude on this for now. 


I certainly agree that that Loglan is dead,
It isn't dead. TLI Loglan is moribund. The Loglan project is alive and well.
I used "that that" Loglan to refer to TLI Loglan. Emphasis on the second "that." I agree that TLI Loglan is moribund, if not quite dead. 


and I gave up on TLI Loglan long ago.
But then, what's the use of trying to explain. Nao, buo no, levi vizgoi 
ga duodja lopo lentaa la Loglan.


It appears that you have not given up on TLI Loglan.


.le simlu na'e fatci
.xu flalu to'e cusku la Loglan le lojbi
I am a subscriber to some TLI publications. I no longer make any effort to learn TLI Loglan and have forgotten much of what I knew. I would find it useful to have some kind of LLG Loglan-TLI Loglan glossary, particularly for cmavo. There are some interesting chapters on "little words" in JCB's Loglan books. It would be great if the full text of JCB's books were online somewhere and linked in some way to LLG cmavo. A simple ASCII word list would be fine. Some of JCB's ideas seem to me to have relevance to semantic issues repeatedly discussed on this listserv. Despite some confusing inconsistencies in the TLI Loglan texts, they are still worth a look.
I devote my Loglan time to either learning LLG Loglan, teaching LLG Loglan to my kids and friends, or posting to this listserv. I am very eager to have an "official" printed LLG Loglan textbook to further my learning/teaching efforts. Over the past 4 or 5 years I have limited my posts to those issues I find most important, such as fuzzy logic and building a community of speakers/writers. I do read the list daily, and have been following along with the little prince translation. Healing the rift between TLI Loglan and LLG Loglan costs LLG Loglan almost nothing, but might have a salubrious effect on community building. Reminds me of global warming: maybe there is nothing to it, but too important to ignore just in case. Similarly, I favor improving the LLG web presence to make it match the reality that LLG Loglan is the only viable Loglan. Our current web presence is inconsistent with this reality. I certainly don't favor doing anything which misrepresents the situation or offends logli. 

-Steven