Re: [lojban] Question about moi and its explanation in 'What is Lojban?'

[Pierre Abbat <phma@webjockey.net>]

On Sunday 24 August 2003 09:41, Raphaël Poss wrote:
> Hi,
>
>         I  was browsing through the  'What is Lojban?' sections lately
>         when I found the following :
>
>           'mi papamoi tavla do'
>           -> 'I am the 11th talker to you'
>
>         If I  remember  my Lojban  lessons  correctly, this  gloss  is
>         wrong, because 'mi papamoi  tavla do' is  equivalent to 'mi do
>         papamoi tavla' or  'do mi papamoi  se  tavla', which all  mean
>         something like :
>
>             "you and I are  both involved in a 11th tavla-relationship
>             where I am the talker and you the listener".
>
>         which cannot, IMHO, be interpreted as :
>
>             "you're my 11th listener"
>
>         but instead as:
>
>             "having  been     10   previous  talkings,    we're   both
>             participating in the 11th".
>
>
>
>         A studious Lojban  learner  probably can make  the  difference
>         after some work with the  language. At which point the initial
>         wrongness of the gloss in 'What is Lojban?' can be observed as
>         a forgivable error  to make the  gloss more easy to comprehend
>         for a beginner (this is what I'm thinking).
>
>
>         Now, the question is, how can one express the meaning of "I am
>         the 11th talker to you" in Lojban ? Precisely, a sentence that
>         states that "you  being the listener for  at least 11 times, I
>         am in charge of talking the 11th" ?
>
>         I tend to favor:
>
>            mi papamoi tavla be do
>
>         However, I'm  not sure that  sentence  conveys the meaning I'm
>         looking for. What do you think ?

{mi papamoi le'i tavla be do}. {papamoi tavla} is a tanru, so it is ambiguous 
between "x1 is the 11th talker to x2", "x2 is the 11th person x1 talked to", 
"x1 and x2 talk the 11th time", "x1 talks to x2 about the 11th thing", etc. 
{be} makes no difference in {mi papamoi tavla be do}.

phma
-- 
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.